Looking for user history regarding their solution for MPG ..

<array7 DeleteThis @inbox.com> wrote in message
news:1194995152.488533.151800@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> My MPG suddendy fell almost 90%, and then another 30% with the next
> gas tank.
> The dealer pretty much hinted that they would rip me off, since my car
> is OBD-I (88' injector V6 Olds).
>
> What I'm looking for is personal history of people who dealt with a
> problem like this and what was the final cause that got the car back
> from the dead.
> Basically, I'm looking for pointers to start self-diagnistics.
>
> In my case - air filter is clean, spark plugs/wires are relatively
> fresh, thermostat & engine coolant sensor are relatively new, and
> report ok on the dash.
> I do know that the cat is somewhat clogged, but in the past in the
> similar condition it didn't cause the MPG drop to such extent.
>
> Car rides very smooth, which probably means that there's no rust on
> brakes/wheels.
>
> In the essence, I'm close to be making only 1/3 of normal mileage at
> this point, highway or not.
>

Standard tune-up first. Then check the O2 sensors. And don't forget
the ignition wires. My 93 Intrepid had a mileage drop. A big one.
I did the simple tune-up, filters and plugs. Then the O2's (what a pain!).
Finally did the wires. The wires were the single biggest improvement.
I'm back up to the high 20's with 195K miles.

One tip. The Intrepid was 'surging' on the highway with the cruise on.
Not bad. It was REAL bad before I changed the O2 sensors. But
the wires got it all fixed.
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for user history regarding their solution for MPG .. 

On Nov 13, 6:05 pm, arr... DeleteThis @inbox.com wrote:
> My MPG suddendy fell almost 90%, and then another 30% with the next
> gas tank.

90%??? How is that possible? You went from 30mpg to 3mpg?

Maybe your neighbor is swiping the gas from your tank.
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for user history regarding their solution for MPG .. 

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:05:52 -0800, array7.DeleteThis@inbox.com wrote:

>My MPG suddendy fell almost 90%, and then another 30% with the next
>gas tank.
>The dealer pretty much hinted that they would rip me off, since my car
>is OBD-I (88' injector V6 Olds).
>

If what you say above is true then you are down to what.. 2 maybe 3
miles per gallon? You aren't burning that much gas in an engine that
seems to run anything like normal. I would suggest you start looking
for the leak.

Steve B.
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for user history regarding their solution for MPG .. 

In article
<1194995152.488533.151800.TakeThisOut@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
array7.TakeThisOut@inbox.com wrote:

> My MPG suddendy fell almost 90%, and then another 30% with the next
> gas tank.
> The dealer pretty much hinted that they would rip me off, since my car
> is OBD-I (88' injector V6 Olds).
>
> What I'm looking for is personal history of people who dealt with a
> problem like this and what was the final cause that got the car back
> from the dead.
> Basically, I'm looking for pointers to start self-diagnistics.
>
> In my case - air filter is clean,

Dirty air filters do not effect fuel mileage despite what the TV
commercials claim.

> spark plugs/wires are relatively
> fresh,


Are they the right ones and correctly installed/routed?

> thermostat & engine coolant sensor are relatively new, and
> report ok on the dash.

The is absolutely no dash readout that correlates to whether or
not fuel is being delivered in the proper quantities.

> I do know that the cat is somewhat clogged, but in the past in the
> similar condition it didn't cause the MPG drop to such extent.

"Somewhat clogged?" That's like my sister in law being somewhat
pregnant.
It's either clogged or not clogged.
Anything that changes the volumetric efficiency of the engine
(plugged cat) will have a major effect on fuel economy.
Measure the exhaust back pressure. Test, don't guess.

> Car rides very smooth, which probably means that there's no rust on
> brakes/wheels.

> In the essence, I'm close to be making only 1/3 of normal mileage at
> this point, highway or not.

You've neglected to divulge what model this car is but if it has
a Mass Air Flow Sensor, I'd be really suspicious and start
looking there IF resolving the plugged exhaust doesn't put things
100% back to normal.
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for user history regarding their solution for MPG .. 

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 01:36:57 GMT, aarcuda69062
<nonelson DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>In article
><1194995152.488533.151800 DeleteThis @e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> array7 DeleteThis @inbox.com wrote:
>
>> My MPG suddendy fell almost 90%, and then another 30% with the next
>> gas tank.
>> The dealer pretty much hinted that they would rip me off, since my car
>> is OBD-I (88' injector V6 Olds).
>>
>> What I'm looking for is personal history of people who dealt with a
>> problem like this and what was the final cause that got the car back
>> from the dead.
>> Basically, I'm looking for pointers to start self-diagnistics.
>>
>> In my case - air filter is clean,
>
>Dirty air filters do not effect fuel mileage despite what the TV
>commercials claim.

Blanket statement that is by no means always true. Not true on
carbureted vehicles.
>
>> spark plugs/wires are relatively
>> fresh,
>
>
>Are they the right ones and correctly installed/routed?
>
>> thermostat & engine coolant sensor are relatively new, and
>> report ok on the dash.

Coolant sensor for the dash guage is not the same as the one for the
computer. The one for the computer will cause a very rich mixture if
its terminals are corroded.
>
>The is absolutely no dash readout that correlates to whether or
>not fuel is being delivered in the proper quantities.
>
>> I do know that the cat is somewhat clogged,

Fix this first.

>but in the past in the
>> similar condition it didn't cause the MPG drop to such extent.
>
>"Somewhat clogged?" That's like my sister in law being somewhat
>pregnant.
>It's either clogged or not clogged.
>Anything that changes the volumetric efficiency of the engine
>(plugged cat) will have a major effect on fuel economy.
>Measure the exhaust back pressure. Test, don't guess.
>
>> Car rides very smooth, which probably means that there's no rust on
>> brakes/wheels.
>
>> In the essence, I'm close to be making only 1/3 of normal mileage at
>> this point, highway or not.
>
>You've neglected to divulge what model this car

88 Olds V6 he said -- could be any one of 4 different engines.

Might want to look for a broken hose to the MAP sensor.

Don
www.donsautomotive.com

>is but if it has
>a Mass Air Flow Sensor, I'd be really suspicious and start
>looking there IF resolving the plugged exhaust doesn't put things
>100% back to normal.
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for user history regarding their solution for MPG .. 

On Nov 13, 3:05 pm, arr... RemoveThis @inbox.com wrote:
> My MPG suddendy fell almost 90%, and then another 30% with the next
> gas tank.

I'm sorry for the typo! It went down 50%, not 90.

>From 20MPG to 12MPG and now to 10MPG.
The engine is 3.8 liter, and there's MAF sensor.
Don't know how many O2s, 1 or 2.

Is there a method to diagnose ignition wires, oxygen & air sensors w/
out expensive equipment?
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for user history regarding their solution for MPG .. 

In article <nkskj358us954ql1mlqjknldo7201n31bs RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
Don <don RemoveThis @NO-SPAMdonsautomotive.com> wrote:

> >Dirty air filters do not effect fuel mileage despite what the TV
> >commercials claim.
>
> Blanket statement that is by no means always true. Not true on
> carbureted vehicles.

According to the OP, this is injected.

> >> spark plugs/wires are relatively
> >> fresh,
> >
> >
> >Are they the right ones and correctly installed/routed?
> >
> >> thermostat & engine coolant sensor are relatively new, and
> >> report ok on the dash.
>
> Coolant sensor for the dash guage is not the same as the one for the
> computer. The one for the computer will cause a very rich mixture if
> its terminals are corroded.
> >
> >The is absolutely no dash readout that correlates to whether or
> >not fuel is being delivered in the proper quantities.
> >
> >> I do know that the cat is somewhat clogged,
>
> Fix this first.
>
> >but in the past in the
> >> similar condition it didn't cause the MPG drop to such extent.
> >
> >"Somewhat clogged?" That's like my sister in law being somewhat
> >pregnant.
> >It's either clogged or not clogged.
> >Anything that changes the volumetric efficiency of the engine
> >(plugged cat) will have a major effect on fuel economy.
> >Measure the exhaust back pressure. Test, don't guess.
> >
> >> Car rides very smooth, which probably means that there's no rust on
> >> brakes/wheels.
> >
> >> In the essence, I'm close to be making only 1/3 of normal mileage at
> >> this point, highway or not.
> >
> >You've neglected to divulge what model this car
>
> 88 Olds V6 he said -- could be any one of 4 different engines.

I can only think of one "Olds" V-6, it had glow plugs.

> Might want to look for a broken hose to the MAP sensor.
>
> Don
> www.donsautomotive.com
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for user history regarding their solution for MPG .. 

On Nov 13, 8:36 pm, aarcuda69062 <nonel... DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> In article
> <1194995152.488533.151... DeleteThis @e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> arr... DeleteThis @inbox.com wrote:
> > My MPG suddendy fell almost 90%, and then another 30% with the next
> > gas tank.
> > The dealer pretty much hinted that they would rip me off, since my car
> > is OBD-I (88' injector V6 Olds).
>
> > What I'm looking for is personal history of people who dealt with a
> > problem like this and what was the final cause that got the car back
> > from the dead.
> > Basically, I'm looking for pointers to start self-diagnistics.
>
> > In my case - air filter is clean,
>
> Dirty air filters do not effect fuel mileage despite what the TV
> commercials claim.
>
> > spark plugs/wires are relatively
> > fresh,
>
> Are they the right ones and correctly installed/routed?
>
> > thermostat & engine coolant sensor are relatively new, and
> > report ok on the dash.
>
> The is absolutely no dash readout that correlates to whether or
> not fuel is being delivered in the proper quantities.
>
> > I do know that the cat is somewhat clogged, but in the past in the
> > similar condition it didn't cause the MPG drop to such extent.
>
> "Somewhat clogged?" That's like my sister in law being somewhat
> pregnant.
> It's either clogged or not clogged.
> Anything that changes the volumetric efficiency of the engine
> (plugged cat) will have a major effect on fuel economy.
> Measure the exhaust back pressure. Test, don't guess.
>
> > Car rides very smooth, which probably means that there's no rust on
> > brakes/wheels.
> > In the essence, I'm close to be making only 1/3 of normal mileage at
> > this point, highway or not.
>
> You've neglected to divulge what model this car is but if it has
> a Mass Air Flow Sensor, I'd be really suspicious and start
> looking there IF resolving the plugged exhaust doesn't put things
> 100% back to normal.



Just to be a bitch, lets look at these 2 blurbs:

" Dirty air filters do not effect fuel mileage despite what the TV
commercials claim. "

" Anything that changes the volumetric efficiency of the engine will
have a major effect on fuel economy. "


I know, I know, dirty ain't plugged. Tooth hurts and I have to take it
out on *someone*.


Dave
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for user history regarding their solution for MPG .. 

Check the O2 sensor.
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for user history regarding their solution for MPG .. 

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:09:52 -0500, Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) <drunk_and_distracted RemoveThis @the_wheel.com> wrote:


>Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS wrote:
>>Check the O2 sensor.

>What the original poster didn't tell you was that he recently switched
>from driving the speed limit, to driving about 30 miles per hour over
>it.

>By the way, have you ever driven faster than the posted speed limit?

please don't feed the troll
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for user history regarding their solution for MPG .. 

On Nov 14, 11:42 am, spamTHIS....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com wrote:

>
> Just to be a bitch, lets look at these 2 blurbs:
>
> " Dirty air filters do not effect fuel mileage despite what the TV
> commercials claim. "
>
> " Anything that changes the volumetric efficiency of the engine will
> have a major effect on fuel economy. "
>
> I know, I know, dirty ain't plugged. Tooth hurts and I have to take it
> out on *someone*.
>
> Dave

I can see the efficiency at wide open throttle dropping slightly. In
effect a restriction in the air filter lowers the MAX VE. But, at
part throttle, one just opens the throttle slightly more to regain the
desired VE. If one is driving using the desired output the VE is a
given value regardless of throttle opening and filter restrictions.

From what I have seen, VE effects do affect thermal efficiency but the
effect is not major except at VERY low VE like idle or very little
throttle opening.
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for user history regarding their solution for MPG .. 

In article <1195027223.941124.122090 RemoveThis @v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
<array7 RemoveThis @inbox.com> wrote:
>On Nov 13, 3:05 pm, arr... RemoveThis @inbox.com wrote:
>> My MPG suddendy fell almost 90%, and then another 30% with the next
>> gas tank.
>
>I'm sorry for the typo! It went down 50%, not 90.
>
>>From 20MPG to 12MPG and now to 10MPG.
>The engine is 3.8 liter, and there's MAF sensor.
>Don't know how many O2s, 1 or 2.
>
>Is there a method to diagnose ignition wires, oxygen & air sensors w/
>out expensive equipment?

Yeah, it's called the "check engine" light. Anything reducing your
mileage from 20mpg to 10mpg should be immediately and grossly obvious,
though -- misfires if it's the ignition, gasoline odor from the
exhaust for the other two.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for user history regarding their solution for MPG .. 

In article <1195062139.445654.189670.RemoveThis@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
<spamTHISbrp.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Just to be a bitch, lets look at these 2 blurbs:
>
>" Dirty air filters do not effect fuel mileage despite what the TV
>commercials claim. "
>
>" Anything that changes the volumetric efficiency of the engine will
>have a major effect on fuel economy. "

I think the theory is that having a dirty air filter is equivalent to
having the throttle not open as far.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for user history regarding their solution for MPG ..