ford focus unexpected acceleration

"Mark Olson" <olsonm.DeleteThis@tiny.invalid> wrote in message
news:11ej8prdh86tsbd@corp.supernews.com...
> malcolmm wrote:
>
>> I had a frightening experiance tonight. My 2000 Wagon (US) would not
>> stop. When I lifted my foot off the accelerator the car just kept on
>> going at the same speed. When I slowed it down using my breaks, the
>> engine started
>> accelerating higher and higher. I had to shift it into neutral because my
>> breaks (which I had done yesterday) could not hold me back and the revs
>> kepr getting higher and higher.
>
> Your BRAKES should be looked at by a competent mechanic. If you were
> standing on the BRAKE pedal and the car accelerated, there is something
> very wrong with the BRAKE system.
>

Any properly operating braking system will easily overpower the motor of
most cars. You should be able to drive with a wide open throttle, even keep
one foot on the gas pedal and still bring your car to a stop with the brakes
without a considerable increase in braking distance.

As he said, your brakes are suspect if you couldn't slow it down.
 >> Stay informed about: ford focus unexpected acceleration 

This all sounds familiar to me. I seem to recall reading this very same post
before. A bit of Trolling perhaps?

Rob

------------------------------

"malcolmm" wrote ...

> I had a frightening experiance tonight. My 2000 Wagon (US) would not stop.
> When I lifted my foot off the accelerator the car just kept on going at
> the same speed. When I slowed it down using my breaks, the engine started
> accelerating higher and higher. I had to shift it into neutral because my
> breaks (which I had done yesterday) could not hold me back and the revs
> kepr getting higher and higher.
 >> Stay informed about: ford focus unexpected acceleration 

"Basic Wedge" <basic-wedge DeleteThis @shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:6joGe.64980$s54.49263@pd7tw2no...
> This all sounds familiar to me. I seem to recall reading this very same
> post before. A bit of Trolling perhaps?

Don't know about this particular thread, but in general these periodic
unintended acceleration posts that pop up on various newsgroups from time to
time do seem to be a Trolling activity - a very special kind of Trolling.
Trolling for big bucks, as in class-action lawsuits. Didn't work in the 80s
with the Audi Victims Network fraud, won't work now either.

It is possible that this "malcolmm" guy is sincere, in which case he was
probably pressing the accelerator rather than the brakes by mistake. The
less likely situation is that he does have both a throttle problem and
almost useless brakes, but that's a pretty unusual combination.
 >> Stay informed about: ford focus unexpected acceleration 

malcolmm <muggeragem DeleteThis @netscape.net> wrote:

> I had a frightening experiance tonight. My 2000 Wagon (US) would not stop.
> When I lifted my foot off the accelerator the car just kept on going at
> the same speed. When I slowed it down using my breaks, the engine started
> accelerating higher and higher. I had to shift it into neutral because my
> breaks (which I had done yesterday) could not hold me back and the revs
> kepr getting higher and higher.
>
> Anybody else had or heard of the same problem?

Yes. Brief engine racing, but it's only happened to me with the clutch
in and no load on the engine.
 >> Stay informed about: ford focus unexpected acceleration 

"Dave Gower" <davegow.removethis.TakeThisOut@magma.ca> wrote in
news:l4Kdnbfc5vFygnffRVn-tQ@magma.ca:

> Interesting that my first post to this newsgroup is taken as being a
"Troll". Have been lurking in this group for the last year and when I
have a problem and post it's taken as...

No my foot was not on the brake. Going down the highway at 110 kms
with no feet on the pedals I think there is a problem and when I
came to a stop the engine raced because it was forced to gear down
(I put it in nutral) and the revs went up to the sky!

And my brakes... from the $510. bill I just had them done.

So guys I am not a Troll but just a person looking for advice not
redicule.

Malc


> "Basic Wedge" <basic-wedge.TakeThisOut@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:6joGe.64980$s54.49263@pd7tw2no...
>> This all sounds familiar to me. I seem to recall reading this very
>> same post before. A bit of Trolling perhaps?
>
> Don't know about this particular thread, but in general these periodic
> unintended acceleration posts that pop up on various newsgroups from
> time to time do seem to be a Trolling activity - a very special kind
> of Trolling. Trolling for big bucks, as in class-action lawsuits.
> Didn't work in the 80s with the Audi Victims Network fraud, won't work
> now either.
>
> It is possible that this "malcolmm" guy is sincere, in which case he
> was probably pressing the accelerator rather than the brakes by
> mistake. The less likely situation is that he does have both a
> throttle problem and almost useless brakes, but that's a pretty
> unusual combination.
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: ford focus unexpected acceleration 

"malcolmm" <muggeragem.DeleteThis@netscape.net> wrote

> No my foot was not on the brake. Going down the highway at 110 kms
> with no feet on the pedals I think there is a problem and when I
> came to a stop the engine raced because it was forced to gear down
> (I put it in nutral) and the revs went up to the sky!

OK, but reread your first post, and especially the subject title. It looked
like you were saying that the car sped up in spite of you applying the
brakes. Now that you have clarified it, this is a simple case of a stuck
throttle, which is something very different from "unexpected acceleration",
to quote you precisely.

Many people are unaware of the long and nasty history behind the issue of
"unintended acceleration" or the fact that there are nutball anti-corporate
activists and sleazy contingency lawyers constantly looking to fabricate a
case. That's why precision is important in discussing any such cases.
 >> Stay informed about: ford focus unexpected acceleration 

neillmassello.DeleteThis@earthlink.net (Neill Massello) wrote in
news:1h0gfxd.kr0i0q1uahlkwN%neillmassello@earthlink.net:

> malcolmm <muggeragem.DeleteThis@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>> I had a frightening experiance tonight. My 2000 Wagon (US) would not
>> stop. When I lifted my foot off the accelerator the car just kept on
>> going at the same speed. When I slowed it down using my breaks, the
>> engine started accelerating higher and higher. I had to shift it into
>> neutral because my breaks (which I had done yesterday) could not hold
>> me back and the revs kepr getting higher and higher.
>>
>> Anybody else had or heard of the same problem?
>
> Yes. Brief engine racing, but it's only happened to me with the clutch
> in and no load on the engine.
>

I too have had that experience. US model 2005 ZX3 with an automatic
transmission and a 2 liter engine. The vehicle was appoximately two
months old with 3.5k miles.

While driving on a two lane road in southern Michigan, (early May, cool
evening, light mist), the dash lights and all gauges "flashed" a couple of
times. On the second "flash" of the dash lights I noted all the gauges
going to the max as well.

The Flashing dash lights were not on and off but rather regular
illumination and VERY bright flashes of appoximately a second duration. In
my experience as an engineer I have wittnessed the same during a high
voltage spike. Possibly something in the alt/regulator?

Anyway, I lifted off of the go pedal while the damn thing floored itself.
After about 5 seconds of bumping the gas pedal and then the brake pedal, I
had the presense of mind to simply turn the key off and I then braked to
the side of the road. I turned the key back on, the gauges and all seemed
to zero, except for the eng temp which read actual temp. There was no
repeat of the flashing dash lights and gauges slewing around. It
restarted and ran normally except for the check engine light which was now
on. The ONLY thing that could have taken the gas pedal to the floor was
the cruise control activating to full pull on the throttle body/linkage.

I carefully drove home and in the am took the car back to the dealer where
I explained the problem. I used a loaner car for the three days the
dealer took to recieve and replace the "transmission position sending
unit". That was the only fault the computer returned. I have over 75k
miles on the car now and have not had a return of the same problem.

I have had to replace both rear wheel bearings and three sets of tires in
75k miles. The factory settings on the rear are stupid and guarentee that
the tires will wear out in 20-25k miles. I have had mine set to 0 degree
toe-in with me sitting in the car and the feathering/wear has been reduced
to a more normal pattern. Current tires have over 30k miles and still
have 50-60% tread left. The excessive toe the factory quotes is probably
the cause of the wheel bearing failure as well.

Another issue with the factory toe-in is VERY dangerous. With such a
light car, while driving in weather, it is possible to unload one side of
the car or the other. That is, get one tire to plane on water or slush
and the other side of the car stays planted. When that happens, the tire
on the loaded side of the car, (the side NOT planing) will push against
straight travel and can (did in my case) cause a spin. At the factory
setting (as recieved 2.5 degrees toe-in on both sides!) it shot the rear
end to the right when the right tire unloaded on slush. Compounding that
problem is that on most roads, the big semi's typically have left slight
depressions in the tarmac that collect a bit more water than the crowns.
A small car like the Focus does'nt ride equally in both depressions so the
likelyhood of having equal ammounts of water/slush under both sides of the
car is less than that of an bigger car/truck and increases the likelyhood
of a spin because of the above. Add to that the tires wearing very
rapidly (worn tires plane much more easily than fresh tires) you have a
great recipe for disaster.

Other than the above I am extreemly happy with this vehicle. A bonus for
us BIG guys, 6ft 3in tall is that I actually fit in the damn thing and my
brother, same size can travel with me. Loads of interior room, (Head and
Foot) in the front seat and with the two door entry/egress is not the
twist, bend, lurch activity typical of most small cars-big people matings.
Don't even talk about the rear seats.... My five year old grandson
does'nt fit now, I can't wait until he is ten. lol.
 >> Stay informed about: ford focus unexpected acceleration 

"Michael Casey" <Mmidecaseya2 DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9B68559ACCBE8midecaseya2yahoocom@69.16.185.247...
> neillmassello DeleteThis @earthlink.net (Neill Massello) wrote in
> news:1h0gfxd.kr0i0q1uahlkwN%neillmassello@earthlink.net:
>
>> malcolmm <muggeragem DeleteThis @netscape.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I had a frightening experiance tonight. My 2000 Wagon (US) would not
>>> stop. When I lifted my foot off the accelerator the car just kept on
>>> going at the same speed. When I slowed it down using my breaks, the
>>> engine started accelerating higher and higher. I had to shift it into
>>> neutral because my breaks (which I had done yesterday) could not hold
>>> me back and the revs kepr getting higher and higher.
>>>
>>> Anybody else had or heard of the same problem?
>>
>> Yes. Brief engine racing, but it's only happened to me with the clutch
>> in and no load on the engine.
>>
>
> I too have had that experience. US model 2005 ZX3 with an automatic
> transmission and a 2 liter engine. The vehicle was appoximately two
> months old with 3.5k miles.
>
> While driving on a two lane road in southern Michigan, (early May, cool
> evening, light mist), the dash lights and all gauges "flashed" a couple of
> times. On the second "flash" of the dash lights I noted all the gauges
> going to the max as well.
>
> The Flashing dash lights were not on and off but rather regular
> illumination and VERY bright flashes of appoximately a second duration. In
> my experience as an engineer I have wittnessed the same during a high
> voltage spike. Possibly something in the alt/regulator?
>
> Anyway, I lifted off of the go pedal while the damn thing floored itself.
> After about 5 seconds of bumping the gas pedal and then the brake pedal, I
> had the presense of mind to simply turn the key off and I then braked to
> the side of the road. I turned the key back on, the gauges and all seemed
> to zero, except for the eng temp which read actual temp. There was no
> repeat of the flashing dash lights and gauges slewing around. It
> restarted and ran normally except for the check engine light which was now
> on. The ONLY thing that could have taken the gas pedal to the floor was
> the cruise control activating to full pull on the throttle body/linkage.
>
> I carefully drove home and in the am took the car back to the dealer where
> I explained the problem. I used a loaner car for the three days the
> dealer took to recieve and replace the "transmission position sending
> unit". That was the only fault the computer returned. I have over 75k
> miles on the car now and have not had a return of the same problem.
>
> I have had to replace both rear wheel bearings and three sets of tires in
> 75k miles. The factory settings on the rear are stupid and guarentee that
> the tires will wear out in 20-25k miles. I have had mine set to 0 degree
> toe-in with me sitting in the car and the feathering/wear has been reduced
> to a more normal pattern. Current tires have over 30k miles and still
> have 50-60% tread left. The excessive toe the factory quotes is probably
> the cause of the wheel bearing failure as well.
>
> Another issue with the factory toe-in is VERY dangerous. With such a
> light car, while driving in weather, it is possible to unload one side of
> the car or the other. That is, get one tire to plane on water or slush
> and the other side of the car stays planted. When that happens, the tire
> on the loaded side of the car, (the side NOT planing) will push against
> straight travel and can (did in my case) cause a spin. At the factory
> setting (as recieved 2.5 degrees toe-in on both sides!) it shot the rear
> end to the right when the right tire unloaded on slush. Compounding that
> problem is that on most roads, the big semi's typically have left slight
> depressions in the tarmac that collect a bit more water than the crowns.
> A small car like the Focus does'nt ride equally in both depressions so the
> likelyhood of having equal ammounts of water/slush under both sides of the
> car is less than that of an bigger car/truck and increases the likelyhood
> of a spin because of the above. Add to that the tires wearing very
> rapidly (worn tires plane much more easily than fresh tires) you have a
> great recipe for disaster.
>
> Other than the above I am extreemly happy with this vehicle. A bonus for
> us BIG guys, 6ft 3in tall is that I actually fit in the damn thing and my
> brother, same size can travel with me. Loads of interior room, (Head and
> Foot) in the front seat and with the two door entry/egress is not the
> twist, bend, lurch activity typical of most small cars-big people matings.
> Don't even talk about the rear seats.... My five year old grandson
> does'nt fit now, I can't wait until he is ten. lol.

The most common cause of runaway acceleration in modern cars is a bad
throttle position sensor. Volvo had several years of bad TPSs, with nearly
all failing around the 100K mile mark. Eventually they warranteed all the
replacements.

In your case, Michael, I agree about basic electrical problems. Maybe a bad
alternator/regulator, but I would also cast a suspicious eye on the battery
(intermittent open, which often shows up as hesitation to crank on some
mornings) and on the engine ground. Dunno how the Focus engine ground is
done, but it can be checked with a voltmeter between the engine and chassis
with the engine running. Anything over 0.1V is cause for investigation. Even
if the voltage is low the ground can be loose. All of those can occur in a
fairly new car.

Mike
 >> Stay informed about: ford focus unexpected acceleration 

"Michael Pardee" <null RemoveThis @null.org> wrote in
news:d4WdncMc4_mYlKrUnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@sedona.net:

> "Michael Casey" <Mmidecaseya2 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9B68559ACCBE8midecaseya2yahoocom@69.16.185.247...
>> neillmassello RemoveThis @earthlink.net (Neill Massello) wrote in
>> news:1h0gfxd.kr0i0q1uahlkwN%neillmassello@earthlink.net:

<<snip>>

> The most common cause of runaway acceleration in modern cars is a bad
> throttle position sensor. Volvo had several years of bad TPSs, with
> nearly all failing around the 100K mile mark. Eventually they
> warranteed all the replacements.
>
> In your case, Michael, I agree about basic electrical problems. Maybe
> a bad alternator/regulator, but I would also cast a suspicious eye on
> the battery (intermittent open, which often shows up as hesitation to
> crank on some mornings) and on the engine ground. Dunno how the Focus
> engine ground is done, but it can be checked with a voltmeter between
> the engine and chassis with the engine running. Anything over 0.1V is
> cause for investigation. Even if the voltage is low the ground can be
> loose. All of those can occur in a fairly new car.
>
> Mike
>
>

Thanks Mike,

The TPS would only cause the IAC to engauge and while that itself will
cause an elvated idle, what I experienced was the throttle pedal going
all the way to to floor, via, I assume, the cruise control (which was not
in use at the time). At the time I had checked the voltages at the
battery, both pos to ground and ground to ground with a 4 decimal place
digital Fluke and found no difference.

I am assuming at this point that somehow the Regulator spiked with no
subsequent complete failure. Current Alternators in production vehicles
are three phase and typically run in the 75 to 90 volt range. The diode
trio chopps the lower half of each wave and leaves only the positive
pulese's at 120 degrees spacing. The regulator chops at 13 to 14 volts
dc and should not be able to pass a spike let alone any constant voltage
higher than that.

As an Electonic Engineer I am at loss to explain this occurance as was
the factory.

There has been absolutely no re-occurance of the problem since.

Mike
 >> Stay informed about: ford focus unexpected acceleration