Why is the supply of E85 fuel so tightly controlled?

In article <VvNTj.7890$ko5.1069@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
abused.TakeThisOut@cia.gov says...
> "Albm&ctd" <alb_mandctdNOWMD.TakeThisOut@connexus.net.au> wrote in message
> news:MPG.22897e644d8a6ea98977c@nntp.aioe.org...
> > In article <MPG.228664ae4c6c7e8b989e31.TakeThisOut@news.individual.net>,
> > carl.robson.TakeThisOut@bouncing-czechs.com says...
> >> In article <MPG.22804077cd51d635989765.TakeThisOut@nntp.aioe.org>,
> >> alb_mandctdNOWMD.TakeThisOut@connexus.net.au says...
> >> > Probably because E85 will toasr any engine not made to run on it.
> >> >
> >> I doubt it. It won't cause pre-ignition because it is a higher octane.
> >> It may run lean if the engine sensors/ecu don't have a wide enough range
> >> of adaption, but it should still run even if the ecu goes to limphome
> >> mode.
> >>
> >> Older carb cars would have less issues as long as there is enough range
> >> on the mixture adjustments/jetting.
> >>
> >> Only issue might be if the ethanol reacts with any existing metals or
> >> plastics/rubbers in the fuel system. It is still a spark combustion
> >> fuel.
> >>
> > Regarding running ethanol, I simply don't think burnt valves, holed
> > pistons or cracked heads would improve performance or emissions. Not as
> > bad as methanol though. You MUST make changes to timing and jetting to
> > run alcohol fuels and you will use far more alcohol than petrol for the
> > same power output. The ideal is to run alcohol fuels on the rich side to
> > avoid problems. With methanol it's approximately twice the fuel you would
> > use on straight petrol. You can't just dump these fuels into an engine
> > with stock settings and expect the engine to last.
> >
> > Al
> > --
> >
> > Like Noddy, as I travel through life, it's not the personal attacks
> > I'm concerned about, it's being recognised wearing lippy and a dress.
> > http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html
>
> I remember helping a friend set his Honda CR 250 to run on Methanol years
> ago, the common consensus was to think of the biggest jet size you think it
> needed then double it
> It ran really well and we didn't care that he had the fastest chook chaser
> amongst us, it was always a pleasure to follow in his exhaust smoke
>
Aldehydes cause insanity apparently... so that's what happened to you.
Think fuel flow in *area* of jets. Don't forget the needle and seat
restriction playing a part in the setup. If you have a whopping main jet
it could drain the bowl and you will run lean at high rpm.. nasty.
Oh well you can't fall out of the sky. AFAIK they won't allow even E10 in
light aircraft.

Al
--
I don't take sides.
It's more fun to insult everyone.
http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html
 >> Stay informed about: Why is the supply of E85 fuel so tightly controlled? 

"Albm&ctd" <alb_mandctdNOWMD RemoveThis @connexus.net.au> wrote in message
news:MPG.228a89ff563607d398977f@nntp.aioe.org...
> In article <VvNTj.7890$ko5.1069@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
> abused RemoveThis @cia.gov says...
>> "Albm&ctd" <alb_mandctdNOWMD RemoveThis @connexus.net.au> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.22897e644d8a6ea98977c@nntp.aioe.org...
>> > In article <MPG.228664ae4c6c7e8b989e31 RemoveThis @news.individual.net>,
>> > carl.robson RemoveThis @bouncing-czechs.com says...
>> >> In article <MPG.22804077cd51d635989765 RemoveThis @nntp.aioe.org>,
>> >> alb_mandctdNOWMD RemoveThis @connexus.net.au says...
>> >> > Probably because E85 will toasr any engine not made to run on it.
>> >> >
>> >> I doubt it. It won't cause pre-ignition because it is a higher octane.
>> >> It may run lean if the engine sensors/ecu don't have a wide enough
>> >> range
>> >> of adaption, but it should still run even if the ecu goes to limphome
>> >> mode.
>> >>
>> >> Older carb cars would have less issues as long as there is enough
>> >> range
>> >> on the mixture adjustments/jetting.
>> >>
>> >> Only issue might be if the ethanol reacts with any existing metals or
>> >> plastics/rubbers in the fuel system. It is still a spark combustion
>> >> fuel.
>> >>
>> > Regarding running ethanol, I simply don't think burnt valves, holed
>> > pistons or cracked heads would improve performance or emissions. Not as
>> > bad as methanol though. You MUST make changes to timing and jetting to
>> > run alcohol fuels and you will use far more alcohol than petrol for the
>> > same power output. The ideal is to run alcohol fuels on the rich side
>> > to
>> > avoid problems. With methanol it's approximately twice the fuel you
>> > would
>> > use on straight petrol. You can't just dump these fuels into an engine
>> > with stock settings and expect the engine to last.
>> >
>> > Al
>> > --
>> >
>> > Like Noddy, as I travel through life, it's not the personal attacks
>> > I'm concerned about, it's being recognised wearing lippy and a dress.
>> > http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html
>>
>> I remember helping a friend set his Honda CR 250 to run on Methanol years
>> ago, the common consensus was to think of the biggest jet size you think
>> it
>> needed then double it
>> It ran really well and we didn't care that he had the fastest chook
>> chaser
>> amongst us, it was always a pleasure to follow in his exhaust smoke
>>
> Aldehydes cause insanity apparently... so that's what happened to you.
> Think fuel flow in *area* of jets. Don't forget the needle and seat
> restriction playing a part in the setup. If you have a whopping main jet
> it could drain the bowl and you will run lean at high rpm.. nasty.
> Oh well you can't fall out of the sky. AFAIK they won't allow even E10 in
> light aircraft.
>
> Al
> --
> I don't take sides.
> It's more fun to insult everyone.
> http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html


That could be it then
remembering that this was decades ago and he had the bike set up to race
short circuit flat track. He did pretty well at it and competed at a
national level, its just a pity that he got the dreaded "rust" and it killed
him a few years ago.

--
"Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color."
Don Hirschberg
 >> Stay informed about: Why is the supply of E85 fuel so tightly controlled? 

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 04:48:09 +0000 (UTC), Saab C900 Viggenist
<c900.RemoveThis@lios.apana.org.au> wrote:

>Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>>Saab C900 Viggenist wrote:
>
>>> Last night I met up with the person who has the very first 2008-built MY08
>>> Saab 9-3 BioPower car sold in Australia. That car has the capability to run
>>> on ethanol blend fuels up to 85 percent ethanol (aka E85), however I was
>>> very amazed when he was telling about how E85 can't be purchased from the
>>> small number of outlets that stock it around Australia without 'registering'
>>> on a federal government database, and service stations that do have it will
>>> deliberately lie when you ask them about it if your vehicle is not
>>> registered in this database!
>
>>Perhaps you can provide some evidence of this ?
>
>Of the 'database'? The owner of the bio-power 9-3 had a phone call directly
>from someone who's a techincal expert from Brazil brought to Australia by
>Manildra to help set up the process of producing E85 fuel.
>
>He arranged with the person who owns the car in question to register them on
>the database and now he can legally buy E85 from any Australian outlet that
>stocks it. The guy from Brazil is living somewhere close to where the owner
>of the bio-power 9-3 lives on the northern beaches area. Seeing as it's the
>very first 08-buily my08 bio-power 9-3 to be sold in Australia, it's
>currently a unique vehicle!
>
>I didn't know E85 was even available in Australia yet, but clearly it is.
>Why it's not legal to buy without 'approval' is still a mystery. I believe
>it's due to the excise issue.

There lies your answer..... Excise issue......

Just think, strip out (distill) other substances, and you probably
have pure ALCOHOL (Ethanol)

Now how much tax is there on alcohol.....?

Thats why I'm sure....

> I bet once more manufacturers start making
>cars that run on high-proportional ethanol fuels things will change (and the
>price of ethanol fuel blends will rise).
>
>Craig.
 >> Stay informed about: Why is the supply of E85 fuel so tightly controlled?