Idle air control valve or oxygen sensor or what?

<fake.RemoveThis@me.com> wrote in
news:g24hni$d2u$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu:

> This whole thing is very very sad.

Thank you for your empathy.

> I hesitate to say too
> much, because the most obvious comment is, the people who
> are alleged "mechanics" are plain and simple incompetent.

I have found this out, even though I have only owned 3 cars in
my life. I once had a VOLVO dealer set the idle on a Volvo stick
shift station wagon to 2000 RPM, so I had to step on the gas AND
on the brake to have it idle normally! The hills and mountains
were especially enjoyable!

> First off, if you have a very high CO level that indicates
> the car is running rich. A faulty distributor or ignition
> coil will not cause you to run rich. Faulty timing might
> if its EXTREMELY bad but thats detectable with a timing
> light.

The permissible aircheck CO level was just lowered from 2 to 1 -
6 months ago my car passed with flying colors. Now my CO
emission level was between 1.5 and 4.5 (per ?) depending on the
2000/4000 RPM readings and depending on whether the "mechanics"
who do these things here messed with the timing first. FWIW, it
was BETTER (under '2' /both/ RPM's) /before/ they slowed it
down!

Still, they ALL said I need a new 0² sensor, as the plug-in
scanner whose reading I /personally/ saw did. But my mechanic
said it was the coil - so I have a 3rd coil in 6 months or so. A
Temic (albeit a Mexican one as I assume the others were, but no
has said anything about that making them worthless) - which
impressed me - I had never heard of Temic let alone that it was
"the only coil to get" until Dave replied to me. OTOH, 3 Temics
in 6 months is NOT so impressive. OTOH, the original lasted over
12 years but who knows what THAT was and where it was made?

I am tempted to buy a real Bosch 0² sensor but my garage says
not to waste the money if the car runs OK. It will be cheaper
than taking it to a dealer for a (hopefully accurate) diagnostic
but at this point (see below) I am just going to wait until the
next disaster strikes.

The current situation is:

It ran GREAT for the first 5 miles after they put in the 3rd
coil and adjusted the AIV.

Then when I started it next day it started instantly (as it
ALWAYS has) but idled even MORE roughly than before! The needle
actually went down to 400 at one point! But it ran fine,
although I /fully/ expected total disaster at some point.

The next day it started, idled and ran just perfectly - and I
stopped and started about 4 or 5 times that day.

> I'd suspect a clogged fuel filter and/or the O2 sensor. A
> car with 30k miles on it shouldn't have a messed up O2
> sensor though.

Yes, I read they last 60K miles.

> On the other hand, driving a car 2300 miles
> a year is very tough on a car. Thats 44 miles per week.

Sometimes it's 10 miles a week, sometimes it's 80. There's
nothing I can do - I am not going to drive it just for the sake
of putting miles on it, right? I live in a huge city with
horrible traffic. It's hell.

As I said, I always warm it up and religiously change
oil/filters. It has always run perfectly well, and when I
started having some problems about a year ago, another garage
cleaned the injectors and a few other things. It was OK for a
few weeks, than it started up again.

I was recommended /this/ garage. They tuned it up, put Bosch
spark plugs in (Dave - I was wrong, Bosch, not Japanese, I
checked the invoice), new dist. cap and rotor, re-cleaned the
injectors, and a few other things (I am reasonably sure they
checked the fuel filter, which was changed a couple of years ago
anyway along with the fuel pump - original German pump was
installed [then THAT garage closed down, of course].).

Anyway, after these guys did all that, it ran better than it has
//EVER// run. (I have been driving it since the car was about 3
years old, for about 10 years now.)

> If you can get 400 miles on a tank, that means you are on
> average going at least 9 weeks between refuels.

The tank is about 15 gallons and I seem to get about 16-20 mpg.
It's always been that - AFAICT because since I drive it so
little I never paid much attention to the gas consumption.

It does vary, but I am sure I have gone 5-8 weeks with no
refill. The gas gauge is a little "moody", and it' not worth
getting into the tank to fix it. But I believe I get more like
200-250 miles per tank. I fill it up full every 100 miles or so
and it usually takes 4-5 gallons to get it full. I reset the
"trip meter" to judge when to fill up.

My garage told me I have to run about 150 miles on it before
they can do a new accurate scanner reading. That's how I knew
last week that I got about 20 mpg - I wrote down the numbers.
The BAD news is that was 90% on the freeway!!!!

> Gas does
> degrade, and humidity condenses in the gas tank which just
> sits there and nastifies your gas.

Well, I didn't know that, and it sounds bad, but short of
stuffing a petrol-resistant rubber bag inside the tank and
inflating it so the tank capacity is reduced to 5 gallons, what
can I do?

> That said, if it were me, I'd positively diagnose it, and
> if you can't do that,

*I* personally certainly can't do it. I have learned more about
this car in this thread than I ever knew before.

> take it to someone who is willing to,
> and not just throw parts at it, or guess about it because
> it will never get fixed that way, and you'll never be sure.

These ARE words of wisdom and I appreciate them.

AT /this/ moment it seems fine. Maybe the super-erratic idling
(which only happened once since the last service) was just the
new coil/AIV adjusting themselves to their "new home" (I know, I
sound like an idiot). If it screws up again, depending on what
my garage says THEN, I MAY bite the bullet and take it to a VW
dealer. If anyone can /positively/ diagnose it, /they/ should be
able to. It will probably cost me 1/8 the current worth of the
car, but that's still better than buying a new one.

> You can positively diagnose the problem if its a faulty
> sensor, period.

Well, as I said, a garage I happened to be passing by at the end
of a hellish day (and figured, what the hell, let's see what
/they/ say) did a scanner reading and it indicated the 0² sensor
as bad.

But MY garage said THEIR scanner indicated a faulty AIV, and
that they adjusted it and also put in a new coil (another
Mexican Temic) since the coil had just died at the same time,
more or less. (Good thing insurance includes towing.)

> BTW, Temic is a German company, as is Beru and Bosch, they
> are all completely separate companies.

Thanks, I got confused when Googling.

Thanks for your comments. I will keep you "posted".

Regards
vc
 >> Stay informed about: Idle air control valve or oxygen sensor or what? 

On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 02:12:14 +0100, vampire chicken <drinking.RemoveThis@the.coop>
wrote:

> <fake.RemoveThis@me.com> wrote in
> news:g24hni$d2u$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu:
>
>> This whole thing is very very sad.
>
> Thank you for your empathy.
>
>> I hesitate to say too
>> much, because the most obvious comment is, the people who
>> are alleged "mechanics" are plain and simple incompetent.
>
> I have found this out, even though I have only owned 3 cars in
> my life. I once had a VOLVO dealer set the idle on a Volvo stick
> shift station wagon to 2000 RPM, so I had to step on the gas AND
> on the brake to have it idle normally! The hills and mountains
> were especially enjoyable!
>
>> First off, if you have a very high CO level that indicates
>> the car is running rich. A faulty distributor or ignition
>> coil will not cause you to run rich. Faulty timing might
>> if its EXTREMELY bad but thats detectable with a timing
>> light.
>
> The permissible aircheck CO level was just lowered from 2 to 1 -
> 6 months ago my car passed with flying colors. Now my CO
> emission level was between 1.5 and 4.5 (per ?) depending on the
> 2000/4000 RPM readings and depending on whether the "mechanics"
> who do these things here messed with the timing first. FWIW, it
> was BETTER (under '2' /both/ RPM's) /before/ they slowed it
> down!
>
> Still, they ALL said I need a new 0² sensor, as the plug-in
> scanner whose reading I /personally/ saw did. But my mechanic
> said it was the coil - so I have a 3rd coil in 6 months or so. A
> Temic (albeit a Mexican one as I assume the others were, but no
> has said anything about that making them worthless) - which
> impressed me - I had never heard of Temic let alone that it was
> "the only coil to get" until Dave replied to me. OTOH, 3 Temics
> in 6 months is NOT so impressive. OTOH, the original lasted over
> 12 years but who knows what THAT was and where it was made?
>
> I am tempted to buy a real Bosch 0² sensor but my garage says
> not to waste the money if the car runs OK. It will be cheaper
> than taking it to a dealer for a (hopefully accurate) diagnostic
> but at this point (see below) I am just going to wait until the
> next disaster strikes.
>
> The current situation is:
>
> It ran GREAT for the first 5 miles after they put in the 3rd
> coil and adjusted the AIV.
>
> Then when I started it next day it started instantly (as it
> ALWAYS has) but idled even MORE roughly than before! The needle
> actually went down to 400 at one point! But it ran fine,
> although I /fully/ expected total disaster at some point.
>
> The next day it started, idled and ran just perfectly - and I
> stopped and started about 4 or 5 times that day.
>
>> I'd suspect a clogged fuel filter and/or the O2 sensor. A
>> car with 30k miles on it shouldn't have a messed up O2
>> sensor though.
>
> Yes, I read they last 60K miles.
>
>> On the other hand, driving a car 2300 miles
>> a year is very tough on a car. Thats 44 miles per week.
>
> Sometimes it's 10 miles a week, sometimes it's 80. There's
> nothing I can do - I am not going to drive it just for the sake
> of putting miles on it, right? I live in a huge city with
> horrible traffic. It's hell.
>
> As I said, I always warm it up and religiously change
> oil/filters. It has always run perfectly well, and when I
> started having some problems about a year ago, another garage
> cleaned the injectors and a few other things. It was OK for a
> few weeks, than it started up again.
>
> I was recommended /this/ garage. They tuned it up, put Bosch
> spark plugs in (Dave - I was wrong, Bosch, not Japanese, I
> checked the invoice), new dist. cap and rotor, re-cleaned the
> injectors, and a few other things (I am reasonably sure they
> checked the fuel filter, which was changed a couple of years ago
> anyway along with the fuel pump - original German pump was
> installed [then THAT garage closed down, of course].).
>
> Anyway, after these guys did all that, it ran better than it has
> //EVER// run. (I have been driving it since the car was about 3
> years old, for about 10 years now.)
>
>> If you can get 400 miles on a tank, that means you are on
>> average going at least 9 weeks between refuels.
>
> The tank is about 15 gallons and I seem to get about 16-20 mpg.
> It's always been that - AFAICT because since I drive it so
> little I never paid much attention to the gas consumption.
>
> It does vary, but I am sure I have gone 5-8 weeks with no
> refill. The gas gauge is a little "moody", and it' not worth
> getting into the tank to fix it. But I believe I get more like
> 200-250 miles per tank. I fill it up full every 100 miles or so
> and it usually takes 4-5 gallons to get it full. I reset the
> "trip meter" to judge when to fill up.
>
> My garage told me I have to run about 150 miles on it before
> they can do a new accurate scanner reading. That's how I knew
> last week that I got about 20 mpg - I wrote down the numbers.
> The BAD news is that was 90% on the freeway!!!!
>
>> Gas does
>> degrade, and humidity condenses in the gas tank which just
>> sits there and nastifies your gas.
>
> Well, I didn't know that, and it sounds bad, but short of
> stuffing a petrol-resistant rubber bag inside the tank and
> inflating it so the tank capacity is reduced to 5 gallons, what
> can I do?
>
>> That said, if it were me, I'd positively diagnose it, and
>> if you can't do that,
>
> *I* personally certainly can't do it. I have learned more about
> this car in this thread than I ever knew before.
>
>> take it to someone who is willing to,
>> and not just throw parts at it, or guess about it because
>> it will never get fixed that way, and you'll never be sure.
>
> These ARE words of wisdom and I appreciate them.
>
> AT /this/ moment it seems fine. Maybe the super-erratic idling
> (which only happened once since the last service) was just the
> new coil/AIV adjusting themselves to their "new home" (I know, I
> sound like an idiot). If it screws up again, depending on what
> my garage says THEN, I MAY bite the bullet and take it to a VW
> dealer. If anyone can /positively/ diagnose it, /they/ should be
> able to. It will probably cost me 1/8 the current worth of the
> car, but that's still better than buying a new one.
>
>> You can positively diagnose the problem if its a faulty
>> sensor, period.
>
> Well, as I said, a garage I happened to be passing by at the end
> of a hellish day (and figured, what the hell, let's see what
> /they/ say) did a scanner reading and it indicated the 0² sensor
> as bad.
>
> But MY garage said THEIR scanner indicated a faulty AIV, and
> that they adjusted it and also put in a new coil (another
> Mexican Temic) since the coil had just died at the same time,
> more or less. (Good thing insurance includes towing.)
>
>> BTW, Temic is a German company, as is Beru and Bosch, they
>> are all completely separate companies.
>
> Thanks, I got confused when Googling.
>
> Thanks for your comments. I will keep you "posted".
>
> Regards
> vc

If you're going to keep it find somebody with or buy vag-com, it lets you
read all the faults yourself, it's better than generic scanners and as
good if not better than the vw one on a car that age. A new O2 sensor is
cheaper than a dealer scan though.
 >> Stay informed about: Idle air control valve or oxygen sensor or what? 

vampire chicken wrote:
> I have a 1995 VW Golf GL, automatic. BION, it has only about
> 30,000 miles on it. I always warm it up and I replace the oil
> and filter every 6 months. Every 2-3 years I do a basic tune-up
> because it has always run very well and I use it so little it
> makes no sense to change spark plugs which have 2,000 miles on
> them, etc.
>
> It started running slightly unevenly about a year ago, a couple
> of partial tune-ups, injector washings, and other stuff
> mechanics do seem to have fixed it.
>
> A month ago or so it started dying on the road. Sometimes it
> would start again, but then it wouldn't. So I had it towed to my
> garage.
>
> The (13 year old) coil was replaced. It died after 6 months, a
> new one was put in ten days ago. It died within a week, a new
> one was put in at no charge. So far so good.
>
> In the meantime - for about the last month or so - the car
> started idling rough - the needle moves between 650 and 850 - it
> NEVER did that before - it /used/ to /run/ a bit unevenly but
> the tune-ups, injector washing etc. appear to have fixed it. It
> rusn fine at normal driving speeds.
>
> It also failed air check for the first time EVER - the CO
> emissions were too high, between 1.5 and 4.5 - depending on who
> messed with the distributor before. They have to be under 1 or
> it doesn't pass. Luckily (?) I live in a place where you can
> "help out" a guy and get a sticker no matter WHAT the readings
> are. Since I drive the car twice a week at most, I can't even
> feel guilty about it.
>
> Several people told me to change the oxygen sensor.
>
> At the end of a tiring day of messing about with all this, I was
> passing by a small garage and they put a scanner on it and it
> said 00525 - lambda sensor. So the guy said to get a new oxygen
> sensor.
>
> My regular garage - who so far have been the best garage I have
> ever been to in my life (yes, I know...) - put /their/ scanner
> on it and /it/ said that the idle air control valve needed
> adjusting - so they adjusted it and it ran like a dream for
> about 30 miles. (It always runs like new after they fix
> something - until the next time.)
>
> So, now it has again started to idle roughly - MUCH more so than
> before - the needle actually dropped down to about 400 at one
> time! It never goes higher than 850, and I understand "normal"
> is 750-800 and that's what it has always been.
>
> The only thing that has occurred to me is that the scanner MAY
> have indicated IACV /and-or/ oxygen sensor as being faulty since
> logic would suggest (of course, logic rarely applies to car
> repairs) the symptoms may be similar. Not that this gets me
> anywhere, still, a thought.
>
> As you can tell, I know almost nothing about cars. Is the valve
> faulty and should it be replaced? WHY did it work great for 30
> miles and then got MUCH worse? Is there an adjustment screw and
> a "fix in place" screw and they forgot to tighten that 2nd
> screw? Or should I replace the oxygen sensor?
>
> Or what?
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I would be looking at the egr valve and maybe replacing the iacv.
 >> Stay informed about: Idle air control valve or oxygen sensor or what? 

"Duncan Wood" <bodgedntp DeleteThis @dmx512.co.uk> wrote in
news:op.ub7u4tsvpmo3dt@lucy:

<SNIP>

> If you're going to keep it find somebody with or buy
> vag-com, it lets you read all the faults yourself, it's
> better than generic scanners and as good if not better
> than the vw one on a car that age.

I looked at it, it looks good but for several reasons I will not
be able to get hold of one where I am (South America, AKA "the
place after which hell won't seem so bad").

The Google page also showed an OBD tool for $71, but, needless
to say, it works with cars made at least a year later than mine
ONLY.

> A new O2 sensor is
> cheaper than a dealer scan though.

Yesterday the car ran fine but it still idles roughly (although
"only" with about a 100-150 RPM variation) so obviously
something is still wrong.

At this point, I can get the 02 sensor for about $60 or I can go
to a VW dealer ($500 ???? $2,000 ?????) or just wait until it's
time to call the tow truck again.

For a variety of life situation-related reasons, getting a new
car is not an option. And I will never buy a used car again
after what I've been through before. I'd rather take public
transit and cabs. (THIS car WAS bought new by another family
member, I just was not here when it was bought, I arrived 3
years later.)

Selling it is an option. While it ran great (for about 12 years)
I intended to run it until the last possible moment. This moment
may have arrived, albeit in a different form than I expected.

I appreciate your comments.
vc
 >> Stay informed about: Idle air control valve or oxygen sensor or what? 

IF you want to keep the car then you can always purchase a vag-com tool to
plug into your car off of ebay
item # 320259252654 which might cost you maybe $40 shipped to you in S.
America.
I prefer the serial type of the clones. I have heard of too many
issues/problems with the USB clones.

OR you can buy the real tool from ross-tech.com, or one of his places closer
to you.
They are investments that will not only save you money but retain a lot of
their value if you decide to sell it.
It can use the latest software and can be used on different computers,
unlike the clones.

JMHO
--
later,
dave
(One out of many daves)

"vampire chicken" <drinking DeleteThis @the.coop> wrote in message
news:Xns9AB487EAE54Fvamchi@66.250.146.158...
> "Duncan Wood" <bodgedntp DeleteThis @dmx512.co.uk> wrote in
> news:op.ub7u4tsvpmo3dt@lucy:
>
> <SNIP>
>
>> If you're going to keep it find somebody with or buy
>> vag-com, it lets you read all the faults yourself, it's
>> better than generic scanners and as good if not better
>> than the vw one on a car that age.
>
> I looked at it, it looks good but for several reasons I will not
> be able to get hold of one where I am (South America, AKA "the
> place after which hell won't seem so bad").
>
> The Google page also showed an OBD tool for $71, but, needless
> to say, it works with cars made at least a year later than mine
> ONLY.
>
>> A new O2 sensor is
>> cheaper than a dealer scan though.
>
> Yesterday the car ran fine but it still idles roughly (although
> "only" with about a 100-150 RPM variation) so obviously
> something is still wrong.
>
> At this point, I can get the 02 sensor for about $60 or I can go
> to a VW dealer ($500 ???? $2,000 ?????) or just wait until it's
> time to call the tow truck again.
>
> For a variety of life situation-related reasons, getting a new
> car is not an option. And I will never buy a used car again
> after what I've been through before. I'd rather take public
> transit and cabs. (THIS car WAS bought new by another family
> member, I just was not here when it was bought, I arrived 3
> years later.)
>
> Selling it is an option. While it ran great (for about 12 years)
> I intended to run it until the last possible moment. This moment
> may have arrived, albeit in a different form than I expected.
>
> I appreciate your comments.
> vc
 >> Stay informed about: Idle air control valve or oxygen sensor or what? 

"Mrcheerful" <nbkm57.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:unx1k.3129$E41.2854@text.news.virginmedia.com:

<SNIP>

> I would be looking at the egr valve and maybe replacing the
> iacv.

Never heard of the egr valve before - I am very ignorant about
cars - but I will mention these things to the mechanic. Thanks.
 >> Stay informed about: Idle air control valve or oxygen sensor or what? 

In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled vampire chicken <drinking RemoveThis @the.coop> wrote:

>> No computer can say you need a new O2 sensor. The computer
>> can say that the output of the O2 sensor is not what it
>> expects. It is then up to an educated person
>
> Hard to find anywhere.

I absolutely agree with you. They are hard to find. But you really have only
a few choices: Learn to fix it yourself, get screwed around with, or find
someone who is absolutely competent and educated. It seems like so far you've
been picking option #2. I will say that I got sick of taking my car to a
mechanic (particularly since I drive older cars) and felt that the only way
to deal with that was to go with option #1. How you want to proceed with
this is up to you, but please remember your options.

> Silly me, I thought plugging a $2,000 scanner into a hidden
> connector on the dashboard would tell me the problem /for
> sure/!!! Now I see all scanners (well, two out of two anyway)
> tell you something different!

Scanners don't cost $2000. You can get a cheap OBD2 scanner (admittedly
your car isn't OBD2 compliant) for $50. A VAG-COM from Uwe Ross is
probably in the neighborhood of $250.

> Well, they were made in Mexico, but no one has said anything
> about that. I am prepared to see if I can find a German one when
> this one bites it, but I may not be able to.

Please don't take this the wrong way. But I do not think the problem
is the country of origin of your parts. I think you are going to drive
yourself nuts worrying about that.

>> If I had to guess,
>> all these mechanics you have been taking it to (the one who
>> keeps replacing your coil, the ones who are cleaning your
>> injectors, etc, etc) are just jerking you around cause they
>> don't know.
>
> IOW, the usual treatment

I don't believe most mechanics intentionally jerk customers around, but
the fact is that sometimes you run into a situation like this where it
requires real understanding of the car and the engine management system
and whats going on. And many of them don't have that. So they plug in
a scanner and replace whatever it says is wrong (see previous comments
about scanners) or start futzing with it, and the first thing that seems
to make it work they declare to be the problem. For example, lets say
you have a badly functioning spark plug, and the coil has gotten a little
weak over time. So they replace the coil which is still functioning within
spec, and the improvement allows the plug to function now. So they declare
that it was a bad coil, but then the new coil starts getting a bit old
and isn't functioning quite as well, maybe some dirt got in the connections
(heck maybe the new coil is still fine) but its not working again, so they
again declare oh, it must be the coil and replace it. Mean while, what
actually "fixed" the problem was loosening and tightening the connectors
on the coil, and the actual problem was the spark plug itself, none of which
got diagnosed. This happens, all too often.

> I am beginning to consider it.

I would seriously consider it, unless you are willing to go with Option 1 or
Option 3.

> 1995 Golf GL 1.8 "Hecho en Mexico".

That car doesn't exist in the US, although I think it may exist in Canada
as the Golf CL. I believe the engine management may be significantly more
primitive than the Motronic used in the US, but I don't know.

>> I don't even know what
>> the heck an adjustment is. I've never owned one, but I do
>> have the service manual, I don't recall hearing of an
>> adjustment, and all the idle stabalizer valves on A2 cars
>> didn't have adjustments.
>
> I have heard my car referred to as the A3 several times, but
> there is no particular reason to suspect THAT part of an A2 and
> an A3 would be any different.

A3 refers to the third generation of the "A" chassis (Rabbit, Golf,
Jetta, Scirocco, Corrado, Cabriolet, Eos, etc). The 93-98 Golf/Jetta/
Cabrio were A3's. The A2 was 85-92 Golf/Jetta and the Corrado was
"A2+" which was an A3/A2 hybrid. Many parts are usually interchangable
between models using the same chassis.

> With what's left of my wits after reading today's 3 replies, I
> will try to mention that to whomever I end up talking to about
> this.

I can understand that, but like I said, I think the solution is to sit down
and think about the problem as picking which of the three options I listed
you wanted to pursue. If you aren't going to go with Option 1 or Option 3,
I think you should get rid of the vehicle and cut your losses.

>>> As I said, I always warm it up and religiously change
>>> oil/filters. It has always run perfectly well, and when I
>>> started having some problems about a year ago, another
>>> garage cleaned the injectors and a few other things. It
>>> was OK for a few weeks, than it started up again.
>>
>> Warming up a car is just a good way to waste gas. The car
>> is adequately warmed up within 20 seconds of driving. Just
>> don't drive it hard for the first couple minutes.
>
> Well, this is a Mac or Windows debate AFAIAC. And it is not
> possible to NOT drive it hard the way traffic and driving
> "style" are around here.
>
> I've warmed up my cars ever since my first VW bug and I can FEEL
> the difference when I don't do it.

I'm not sure how this is a Mac/Windows debate, and I fail to understand what
an old carbureted air cooled rear engine vehicle has to do with a modern
fuel injected water coiled front engined one. Warming up a vehicle 30 years
ago may have been necessary but that doesn't mean it still is.

> "90% of engine damage happens in the first 10 minutes of
> operation. Always warm up your car regardless of what the
> owner's manual says. They just want you to buy a new car
> sooner." (Paraphrased from "How to keep your VW alive", a 70's
> American "alternative" manual".)

Right, so you are relying on 30+ year old advice regarding cars that
are significantly more than 30 years old. Modern oils and lubricants
are also much better than those available 30 years ago.

> South America. I said petrol because it seems most people in
> these groups are British.

So sad, this group used to be very robust and almost exclusively American.
It would seem in recent years many fewer people are here. Maybe all
the Americans went off to VWVortex or something.

>> Ugh... I don't know how similar the engine electronics on a
> UK A3 is to the US one.
>
> Or a Mexican-made one.

Its not about where its made, its about the end-market. VW hasn't
built vehicles in the US since the Westmoreland, PA plant closed in the
80s. Most Jettas sold in the US are Mexican made. I think Golfs sold
in the US are typically Brasilian made, whereas Golfs sold in Europe are
probably made in Europe. I know the engine management in US-market A2s was
significantly different than that of European-market A2s.

> I appreciate your comments, but if anything, I feel I am sinking
> into quicksand deeper and deeper.

I don't blame you, which is why I said, cut your losses or do it right.
The EGR is yet another red herring as it has virtually nothing to do with
CO. The CO is something you KNOW is wrong, so why not fix what you know
is a problem and then worry about stuff you don't know since that might
get fixed at the same time.
 >> Stay informed about: Idle air control valve or oxygen sensor or what? 

On 05 Jun 2008 14:50:34 GMT, vampire chicken <drinking.RemoveThis@the.coop>
wrote:

>"Mrcheerful" <nbkm57.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in
>news:unx1k.3129$E41.2854@text.news.virginmedia.com:
>
><SNIP>
>
>> I would be looking at the egr valve and maybe replacing the
>> iacv.
>
>Never heard of the egr valve before - I am very ignorant about
>cars - but I will mention these things to the mechanic. Thanks.
>
My 21 year old Toyota with 270,000 miles has never had any silly warm
up sitting in the driveway nonsense. My Rabbits that had 300,000 miles
on them before I sold or destroyed them had fine running engines with
no silly idle in the driveway warm up. My 1967 Beetle, the family 1966
Squareback never had sit in the driveway idling warm ups. Heck the
engines never really warmed up until they were driving. My 2003 TDI
with 190,000 miles has never had a warm up driveway idle. Heck a
diesel never really warms up anyway. If your oil never gets hot you
are causing damage. Hot water is not hot oil. All kinds of bad things
happen if your oil does not get warm.

This may not be a binary problem. Running rich as mentioned because of
a bad oxygen sensor can cause the catalytic converter to fail. This
causes the car to use even more fuel as it has an exhaust restriction.
Leaky vacuum hoses can cause all kinds of problems. I head read bad
grounds cause problems. I have had bad connections at a hall sensor in
the distributor cause problems in my Rabbits. Lots of gotchas that
possible a VW savant may find but not an average mechanic.
 >> Stay informed about: Idle air control valve or oxygen sensor or what? 

"dave AKA vwdoc1" <vwdoc1nospam DeleteThis @pleasehotmail.com> wrote in
news:1gX1k.4987$xZ.1451@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com:

> IF you want to keep the car then you can always purchase a
> vag-com tool to plug into your car off of ebay
> item # 320259252654 which might cost you maybe $40 shipped
> to you in S. America.
> I prefer the serial type of the clones. I have heard of
> too many issues/problems with the USB clones.
>
> OR you can buy the real tool from ross-tech.com, or one of
> his places closer to you.
> They are investments that will not only save you money but
> retain a lot of their value if you decide to sell it.
> It can use the latest software and can be used on different
> computers, unlike the clones.
>
> JMHO

About half of my CD orders get stolen in the mail. A tool like
that has NO chance of making it. BION, even FedEx is problematic
here not to mention it would roughly double the cost.

I realize those lucky enough to live in a country where packages
can be left safely on people's doorsteps do not know the many
realities and joys of living in the 3rd world. One of them is
that everything except a few basics is 125% to 250% of its US
price, not to mention you simply can NOT get a lot of stuff. I
could go on and on and on...

Still, I appreciate your advice.
vc
 >> Stay informed about: Idle air control valve or oxygen sensor or what?