my civic and its timing belt

"jim beam" <nospam.TakeThisOut@example.net> wrote in message news:nb6dnUJANdQH4w7cRVn-iw@comcast.com...
> burt squareman wrote:

> don't ever touch one of my cars. _ever_. you ever heard of balancing?

Each side will get a precise hole. I would never drill holes unless
they're mine, probably will elect not to do so, unless out of options.

> because they load the pulley in the way it was designed, not lever it in
> some oblique mode that may or may not bend the pulley off center. not
> to mention the time involved messing about with a cludge.
> bottom line burt, it's your car - you do whatever you want. but if you
> came to me after you'd messed something up, i'd charge you through the
> nose so bad, you'd think paying for the right tool was a privilege.

It's a free country, each independent person will do as they wish to their
vehicle. My 16-year old 260K Honda has never need outside consulting.
The only costly parts I've replace are the water pump and battery. I
probably shouldn't reseat a new bearing and machine seals for my water
pump but what the heck, I'll try it out anyway in about 10-years and making
sure it'll continue to stay away from outside consulting.
 >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt 

"burt squareman" <catnip4sale DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1100154561.ya37NvF5b0DzULdyGoj5ug@bubbanews...
> Special tools are
> the safest route but at least don't pay 60-$70 for it. 20-$30 is about
> right,
> like this one.
>
> http://www.autopart.com/TOOLS/TOOLSMAIN/tool/T_A812.htm
>
>
That's the direction I'll go. Thanks for the link, Burt! The better the
backstop on the pulley, the better I figure the impact will work. My
daughter has a '93 Accord - the timing belt was replaced 3 years, 50K miles
ago and it has an auto tranny.

I'll check back in after the tool arrives and we get it scheduled.

Mike
 >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt 

"jim beam" <nospam.TakeThisOut@example.net> wrote
> burt squareman wrote:

> > and
> > then relying on another individual or organization, since most men don't
> > like to ask for directions. There's no chance of bending the crank with
> > human muscle. Even if you're using hydraulics force there has never been
> > proof of damage other than the motor mount jumping out. But 90 degrees
> > is almost impossible with what most of us are capable of.
>
> you're talking permanent bending. i'm talking elastic windup. read
> back in this thread and earlier ones - caroline's comes to mind - for
> windup horror stories.

Hey, you're the one who characterizes these as horror stories.

If the torque required is about 500 ft-lbs, and with some other assumptions,
yes, the rotation of the socket and extensions (over 20 inches in length,
altogether) from one end to the other will be around 75 degrees. Plus or minus,
of course, given the assumptions. The actual experience I had validated this as
an approximation.

IMO, my pulley bolt removal went really well, once I had the right pulley holder
tool (custom design by Eric with modifications by Caroline for her 91 Civic's
slightly different pulley). I credit doing a lot of research here, first. I've
used my home-made tool twice since and it's fantastic. (Though of course freeing
the bolt a few times within a month or so means the bolt hadn't been through a
lot of heat cycles and so wasn't as hard to free after the first loosening.)

I'm not sure whether you mean literally bending the crankshaft. I estimate 10
degrees to 90 degrees of twist may be necessary, but the only thing that is
moving (twisting before the bolt comes free) are the extensions and possibly
deep socket. The stress comes mostly from twisting, not bending.

Not using a jack to support the extensions will likely result in something
failing. I talked to a couple of yahoo guys in one of my auto classes who were
trying to free a pulley bolt on their IIRC 98 Civic, and they bragged about
breaking two Crafstman half-inch extensions. "Did you support the extensions
with a jack?" I asked. "Um, no.... " So of course bending stress and twisting
stress added together in the extensions and busted them right apart.

Some people (boys) need to be cautioned about this. They're the horror stories.
Not an effin' experienced woman mechanical engineer who's never driven her car
over 80 mph in her life.

> > Special tools are
> > the safest route but at least don't pay 60-$70 for it. 20-$30 is about
right,
> > like this one.
> >
> > http://www.autopart.com/TOOLS/TOOLSMAIN/tool/T_A812.htm
> >
>
> that works for 92 up, not the excellent 88-91's.

Anyone wanting the "custom tool" recipe for many or all of the 88-91's, go to
www.groups.google.com and search for the following:

{ "surveying stake" pulley author:caroline group:rec.autos.makers.honda }

Omit the lock washers. The hose is fine as a spacer to protect the pulley lip.
 >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt 

burt squareman wrote:
> "jim beam" <nospam RemoveThis @example.net> wrote in message news:nb6dnUJANdQH4w7cRVn-iw@comcast.com...
>
>>burt squareman wrote:
>
>
>>don't ever touch one of my cars. _ever_. you ever heard of balancing?
>
>
> Each side will get a precise hole. I would never drill holes unless
> they're mine, probably will elect not to do so, unless out of options.

burt, i honestly don't mean this to come across like a bitchfest, even
if it sounds like one. drilling opposed holes is pretty random as to
whether it's going to preserve balance. castings, such as pulley
wheels, tend to have voids or porosity that can leave the piece of
non-uniform density. that's why they need to be balanced before the
engine is assembled. and because of this different density, you may be
drilling solid material out of one side, but porous out of the other,
hence the balance is now lost. pretty sure you know the effects
imbalance can have on bearing life, seals, etc. true, honda castings
are pretty good, and you may get lucky, but in principle, drilling is
really not a good plan.

>
>
>>because they load the pulley in the way it was designed, not lever it in
>>some oblique mode that may or may not bend the pulley off center. not
>>to mention the time involved messing about with a cludge.
>>bottom line burt, it's your car - you do whatever you want. but if you
>>came to me after you'd messed something up, i'd charge you through the
>>nose so bad, you'd think paying for the right tool was a privilege.
>
>
> It's a free country, each independent person will do as they wish to their
> vehicle. My 16-year old 260K Honda has never need outside consulting.
> The only costly parts I've replace are the water pump and battery. I
> probably shouldn't reseat a new bearing and machine seals for my water
> pump but what the heck, I'll try it out anyway in about 10-years and making
> sure it'll continue to stay away from outside consulting.
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt 

Caroline wrote:
> "jim beam" <nospam.TakeThisOut@example.net> wrote
>
>>burt squareman wrote:
>
>
>>>and
>>>then relying on another individual or organization, since most men don't
>>>like to ask for directions. There's no chance of bending the crank with
>>>human muscle. Even if you're using hydraulics force there has never been
>>>proof of damage other than the motor mount jumping out. But 90 degrees
>>>is almost impossible with what most of us are capable of.
>>
>>you're talking permanent bending. i'm talking elastic windup. read
>>back in this thread and earlier ones - caroline's comes to mind - for
>>windup horror stories.
>
>
> Hey, you're the one who characterizes these as horror stories.
>
> If the torque required is about 500 ft-lbs, and with some other assumptions,
> yes, the rotation of the socket and extensions (over 20 inches in length,
> altogether) from one end to the other will be around 75 degrees. Plus or minus,
> of course, given the assumptions. The actual experience I had validated this as
> an approximation.

yes, and you get windup through the engine & transmission components too.

>
> IMO, my pulley bolt removal went really well, once I had the right pulley holder
> tool (custom design by Eric with modifications by Caroline for her 91 Civic's
> slightly different pulley). I credit doing a lot of research here, first. I've
> used my home-made tool twice since and it's fantastic. (Though of course freeing
> the bolt a few times within a month or so means the bolt hadn't been through a
> lot of heat cycles and so wasn't as hard to free after the first loosening.)
>
> I'm not sure whether you mean literally bending the crankshaft.

no, elastic windup.

> I estimate 10
> degrees to 90 degrees of twist may be necessary, but the only thing that is
> moving (twisting before the bolt comes free) are the extensions and possibly
> deep socket. The stress comes mostly from twisting, not bending.
>
> Not using a jack to support the extensions will likely result in something
> failing. I talked to a couple of yahoo guys in one of my auto classes who were
> trying to free a pulley bolt on their IIRC 98 Civic, and they bragged about
> breaking two Crafstman half-inch extensions. "Did you support the extensions
> with a jack?" I asked. "Um, no.... " So of course bending stress and twisting
> stress added together in the extensions and busted them right apart.
>
> Some people (boys) need to be cautioned about this. They're the horror stories.
> Not an effin' experienced woman mechanical engineer who's never driven her car
> over 80 mph in her life.

how about hitting the red line? c'mon caroline, consider it an
[engineering] exercise in envelope determination!

>
>
>>>Special tools are
>>>the safest route but at least don't pay 60-$70 for it. 20-$30 is about
>
> right,
>
>>>like this one.
>>>
>>>http://www.autopart.com/TOOLS/TOOLSMAIN/tool/T_A812.htm
>>>
>>
>>that works for 92 up, not the excellent 88-91's.
>
>
> Anyone wanting the "custom tool" recipe for many or all of the 88-91's, go to
> www.groups.google.com and search for the following:
>
> { "surveying stake" pulley author:caroline group:rec.autos.makers.honda }
>
> Omit the lock washers. The hose is fine as a spacer to protect the pulley lip.
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt 

"jim beam" <nospam RemoveThis @example.net> wrote
> Caroline wrote:
snip
> > If the torque required is about 500 ft-lbs, and with some other assumptions,
> > yes, the rotation of the socket and extensions (over 20 inches in length,
> > altogether) from one end to the other will be around 75 degrees. Plus or
minus,
> > of course, given the assumptions. The actual experience I had validated this
as
> > an approximation.
>
> yes, and you get windup through the engine & transmission components too.

The pulley is keyed to its shaft. Immobilizing the pulley immobilizes the
crankshaft.

Thus the torque applied by the technician or DIYer is resisted by the pulley
holding tool, which in turn is held immobile by the ground (in the case of my
and many others' design).

snip
> > Not an effin' experienced woman mechanical engineer who's never driven her
car
> > over 80 mph in her life.
>
> how about hitting the red line? c'mon caroline, consider it an
> [engineering] exercise in envelope determination!

I don't understand this culture of recklessness. I have too much to do in life
to take these kind of risks.

Great fuel mileage, not speed, is a much bigger thrill for me.

Just saying.

Caroline
"Don't get metaphorical on me... Well, you could, and you'd be right, but let's
keep this a PG-13 group."
 >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt 

Caroline wrote:
> "jim beam" <nospam.DeleteThis@example.net> wrote
>
>>Caroline wrote:
>
> snip
>
>>>If the torque required is about 500 ft-lbs, and with some other assumptions,
>>>yes, the rotation of the socket and extensions (over 20 inches in length,
>>>altogether) from one end to the other will be around 75 degrees. Plus or
>
> minus,
>
>>>of course, given the assumptions. The actual experience I had validated this
>
> as
>
>>>an approximation.
>>
>>yes, and you get windup through the engine & transmission components too.
>
>
> The pulley is keyed to its shaft. Immobilizing the pulley immobilizes the
> crankshaft.
>
> Thus the torque applied by the technician or DIYer is resisted by the pulley
> holding tool, which in turn is held immobile by the ground (in the case of my
> and many others' design).

absolutely! it's the folks trying to hold the pulley through the
transmission with the brakes on that are making me cringe.

>
> snip
>
>>>Not an effin' experienced woman mechanical engineer who's never driven her
>
> car
>
>>>over 80 mph in her life.
>>
>>how about hitting the red line? c'mon caroline, consider it an
>>[engineering] exercise in envelope determination!
>
>
> I don't understand this culture of recklessness. I have too much to do in life
> to take these kind of risks.
>
> Great fuel mileage, not speed, is a much bigger thrill for me.

so, party at your place then? just kidding.

>
> Just saying.
>
> Caroline
> "Don't get metaphorical on me... Well, you could, and you'd be right, but let's
> keep this a PG-13 group."
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt 

Sorry I didn't get back to you.
A 3/4 air gun sets around 750 ft lbs I believe. It was a used one on the
snap-on truck, a central pneumatics I believe. A larger gun has bigger
hammers, and doesn't beat you up as much as a 1/2 inch gun. more force goes
into the socket. Working in a auto shop, we occasionally get the stubborn
bolts, and on occasion have tried everyone's gun in the shop. Sometimes some
will work where another one won't. the 3/4 has always worked. Once the shop
downtown from us called asking if I still had such a gun, they were fighting
a crank bolt for several hours with a huge compressor and a bunch of 1/2
inch guns. No success. Big Bertha did the job with no problem
I wouldn't use heat on a crank. See if you can find a big gun and give it a
try. Of coarse air supply is important, but usually on a small compressor,
the initial trigger pull and the first 5 seconds will tell you if you are
going to win.



"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull.DeleteThis@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:woKdnVQPqoDBMw3cRVn-hQ@sedona.net...
> "Steve" <hansensw.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:JrYjd.868240$Gx4.741590@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> It's a good method, and will work sometimes. I have a 3/4 inch gun
>> just-in-case. It always works
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stephen W. Hansen
>> ASE Certified Auto Technician
>>
>>
> What's the peak torque on that?
>
> Mike
> shade tree fixit man
>
 >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt 

Thanks, Steve. That is interesting about the bigger hammers. I can't argue
with results!

I've ordered a holder tool for the pulley to stiffen up the work. I'll try
the 500 ft-lb, 1/2 inch drive and at-tool regulator with that. At least
there is no hurry. The rental place also has a 1 inch drive pneumatic
besides the 3/4 inch drive electric. There are options....

As my son mentions, this pretty much answers the question of whether the
belt has been replaced before!

Mike

"Steve" <hansensw RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uT5ld.890602$Gx4.248400@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Sorry I didn't get back to you.
> A 3/4 air gun sets around 750 ft lbs I believe. It was a used one on the
> snap-on truck, a central pneumatics I believe. A larger gun has bigger
> hammers, and doesn't beat you up as much as a 1/2 inch gun. more force
> goes into the socket. Working in a auto shop, we occasionally get the
> stubborn bolts, and on occasion have tried everyone's gun in the shop.
> Sometimes some will work where another one won't. the 3/4 has always
> worked. Once the shop downtown from us called asking if I still had such a
> gun, they were fighting a crank bolt for several hours with a huge
> compressor and a bunch of 1/2 inch guns. No success. Big Bertha did the
> job with no problem
> I wouldn't use heat on a crank. See if you can find a big gun and give it
> a try. Of coarse air supply is important, but usually on a small
> compressor, the initial trigger pull and the first 5 seconds will tell you
> if you are going to win.
>
>
>
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull RemoveThis @cybertrails.com> wrote in message
> news:woKdnVQPqoDBMw3cRVn-hQ@sedona.net...
>> "Steve" <hansensw RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:JrYjd.868240$Gx4.741590@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>> It's a good method, and will work sometimes. I have a 3/4 inch gun
>>> just-in-case. It always works
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Stephen W. Hansen
>>> ASE Certified Auto Technician
>>>
>>>
>> What's the peak torque on that?
>>
>> Mike
>> shade tree fixit man
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt 

As many timing belts as I have done, this "tool" your getting seems like a
waste of money and time to me. The only time I've needed to hold the pulley
was when there isn't enough room to fit a gun in (Nissan 300zx last week) A
good gun WILL remove the bolt. If the gun you have didn't work try a bigger
one.
Also use as little extensions as possible, they reduce torque. preferably a
socket on the gun, then step up until you just have the reach you need.

--
Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Auto Technician



"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull DeleteThis @cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:Z9ednUF8cpd-xgjcRVn-ug@sedona.net...
> Thanks, Steve. That is interesting about the bigger hammers. I can't argue
> with results!
>
> I've ordered a holder tool for the pulley to stiffen up the work. I'll try
> the 500 ft-lb, 1/2 inch drive and at-tool regulator with that. At least
> there is no hurry. The rental place also has a 1 inch drive pneumatic
> besides the 3/4 inch drive electric. There are options....
>
> As my son mentions, this pretty much answers the question of whether the
> belt has been replaced before!
>
> Mike
>
> "Steve" <hansensw DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:uT5ld.890602$Gx4.248400@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> Sorry I didn't get back to you.
>> A 3/4 air gun sets around 750 ft lbs I believe. It was a used one on the
>> snap-on truck, a central pneumatics I believe. A larger gun has bigger
>> hammers, and doesn't beat you up as much as a 1/2 inch gun. more force
>> goes into the socket. Working in a auto shop, we occasionally get the
>> stubborn bolts, and on occasion have tried everyone's gun in the shop.
>> Sometimes some will work where another one won't. the 3/4 has always
>> worked. Once the shop downtown from us called asking if I still had such
>> a gun, they were fighting a crank bolt for several hours with a huge
>> compressor and a bunch of 1/2 inch guns. No success. Big Bertha did the
>> job with no problem
>> I wouldn't use heat on a crank. See if you can find a big gun and give it
>> a try. Of coarse air supply is important, but usually on a small
>> compressor, the initial trigger pull and the first 5 seconds will tell
>> you if you are going to win.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull DeleteThis @cybertrails.com> wrote in message
>> news:woKdnVQPqoDBMw3cRVn-hQ@sedona.net...
>>> "Steve" <hansensw DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:JrYjd.868240$Gx4.741590@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>>> It's a good method, and will work sometimes. I have a 3/4 inch gun
>>>> just-in-case. It always works
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Stephen W. Hansen
>>>> ASE Certified Auto Technician
>>>>
>>>>
>>> What's the peak torque on that?
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> shade tree fixit man
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt 

This bolt is indeed devilishly tight, and I'm looking for all the benefit I
can get. It makes sense to backstop the pulley or crankshaft as firmly as
possible in order to prevent the impact from being distributed through the
power train. In any event, the tool is on its way. There must be a reason
Honda made the fitment for the tool and prescribed a tool to use.

If my gun can't get it with the tool, I'll rent a bigger one. But I'd think
an honest 500 ft-lbs delivered to the bolt-crank junction should do the
trick. It would be interesting to know what torques there actually are on
these 10 year old factory originals!

Mike

"Steve" <hansensw.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FmUld.906224$Gx4.325708@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> As many timing belts as I have done, this "tool" your getting seems like a
> waste of money and time to me. The only time I've needed to hold the
> pulley was when there isn't enough room to fit a gun in (Nissan 300zx last
> week) A good gun WILL remove the bolt. If the gun you have didn't work try
> a bigger one.
> Also use as little extensions as possible, they reduce torque. preferably
> a socket on the gun, then step up until you just have the reach you need.
>
> --
> Stephen W. Hansen
> ASE Certified Auto Technician
>
>
>
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull.RemoveThis@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
> news:Z9ednUF8cpd-xgjcRVn-ug@sedona.net...
>> Thanks, Steve. That is interesting about the bigger hammers. I can't
>> argue with results!
>>
>> I've ordered a holder tool for the pulley to stiffen up the work. I'll
>> try the 500 ft-lb, 1/2 inch drive and at-tool regulator with that. At
>> least there is no hurry. The rental place also has a 1 inch drive
>> pneumatic besides the 3/4 inch drive electric. There are options....
>>
>> As my son mentions, this pretty much answers the question of whether the
>> belt has been replaced before!
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> "Steve" <hansensw.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:uT5ld.890602$Gx4.248400@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>> Sorry I didn't get back to you.
>>> A 3/4 air gun sets around 750 ft lbs I believe. It was a used one on the
>>> snap-on truck, a central pneumatics I believe. A larger gun has bigger
>>> hammers, and doesn't beat you up as much as a 1/2 inch gun. more force
>>> goes into the socket. Working in a auto shop, we occasionally get the
>>> stubborn bolts, and on occasion have tried everyone's gun in the shop.
>>> Sometimes some will work where another one won't. the 3/4 has always
>>> worked. Once the shop downtown from us called asking if I still had such
>>> a gun, they were fighting a crank bolt for several hours with a huge
>>> compressor and a bunch of 1/2 inch guns. No success. Big Bertha did the
>>> job with no problem
>>> I wouldn't use heat on a crank. See if you can find a big gun and give
>>> it a try. Of coarse air supply is important, but usually on a small
>>> compressor, the initial trigger pull and the first 5 seconds will tell
>>> you if you are going to win.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull.RemoveThis@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
>>> news:woKdnVQPqoDBMw3cRVn-hQ@sedona.net...
>>>> "Steve" <hansensw.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:JrYjd.868240$Gx4.741590@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>>>> It's a good method, and will work sometimes. I have a 3/4 inch gun
>>>>> just-in-case. It always works
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Stephen W. Hansen
>>>>> ASE Certified Auto Technician
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> What's the peak torque on that?
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>> shade tree fixit man
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt 

Perhaps 505 ft lbs!
There are a lot of Manufacture tools for specific little things in a car,
and only a select few make it into my toolbox. I want to avoid buying a tool
to use it once and never use it again.
Keep us informed


--
Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Auto Technician





"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull RemoveThis @cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:OuidnfYRRIdGBgXcRVn-sQ@sedona.net...
> This bolt is indeed devilishly tight, and I'm looking for all the benefit
> I can get. It makes sense to backstop the pulley or crankshaft as firmly
> as possible in order to prevent the impact from being distributed through
> the power train. In any event, the tool is on its way. There must be a
> reason Honda made the fitment for the tool and prescribed a tool to use.
>
> If my gun can't get it with the tool, I'll rent a bigger one. But I'd
> think an honest 500 ft-lbs delivered to the bolt-crank junction should do
> the trick. It would be interesting to know what torques there actually are
> on these 10 year old factory originals!
>
> Mike
>
> "Steve" <hansensw RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:FmUld.906224$Gx4.325708@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> As many timing belts as I have done, this "tool" your getting seems like
>> a waste of money and time to me. The only time I've needed to hold the
>> pulley was when there isn't enough room to fit a gun in (Nissan 300zx
>> last week) A good gun WILL remove the bolt. If the gun you have didn't
>> work try a bigger one.
>> Also use as little extensions as possible, they reduce torque. preferably
>> a socket on the gun, then step up until you just have the reach you need.
>>
>> --
>> Stephen W. Hansen
>> ASE Certified Auto Technician
>>
>>
>>
>> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull RemoveThis @cybertrails.com> wrote in message
>> news:Z9ednUF8cpd-xgjcRVn-ug@sedona.net...
>>> Thanks, Steve. That is interesting about the bigger hammers. I can't
>>> argue with results!
>>>
>>> I've ordered a holder tool for the pulley to stiffen up the work. I'll
>>> try the 500 ft-lb, 1/2 inch drive and at-tool regulator with that. At
>>> least there is no hurry. The rental place also has a 1 inch drive
>>> pneumatic besides the 3/4 inch drive electric. There are options....
>>>
>>> As my son mentions, this pretty much answers the question of whether the
>>> belt has been replaced before!
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> "Steve" <hansensw RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:uT5ld.890602$Gx4.248400@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>>> Sorry I didn't get back to you.
>>>> A 3/4 air gun sets around 750 ft lbs I believe. It was a used one on
>>>> the snap-on truck, a central pneumatics I believe. A larger gun has
>>>> bigger hammers, and doesn't beat you up as much as a 1/2 inch gun. more
>>>> force goes into the socket. Working in a auto shop, we occasionally get
>>>> the stubborn bolts, and on occasion have tried everyone's gun in the
>>>> shop. Sometimes some will work where another one won't. the 3/4 has
>>>> always worked. Once the shop downtown from us called asking if I still
>>>> had such a gun, they were fighting a crank bolt for several hours with
>>>> a huge compressor and a bunch of 1/2 inch guns. No success. Big Bertha
>>>> did the job with no problem
>>>> I wouldn't use heat on a crank. See if you can find a big gun and give
>>>> it a try. Of coarse air supply is important, but usually on a small
>>>> compressor, the initial trigger pull and the first 5 seconds will tell
>>>> you if you are going to win.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull RemoveThis @cybertrails.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:woKdnVQPqoDBMw3cRVn-hQ@sedona.net...
>>>>> "Steve" <hansensw RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:JrYjd.868240$Gx4.741590@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>>>>> It's a good method, and will work sometimes. I have a 3/4 inch gun
>>>>>> just-in-case. It always works
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Stephen W. Hansen
>>>>>> ASE Certified Auto Technician
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> What's the peak torque on that?
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>> shade tree fixit man
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt 

"Steve" <hansensw RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:EXfmd.913280$Gx4.643590@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Perhaps 505 ft lbs!

LOL! Darned evil spirits may have their way with me yet!

> There are a lot of Manufacture tools for specific little things in a car,
> and only a select few make it into my toolbox. I want to avoid buying a
> tool to use it once and never use it again.
> Keep us informed

Will do. The tool came in the mail yesterday, and we should have a shot at
it in the next few days.
>
>
> --
> Stephen W. Hansen
> ASE Certified Auto Technician
>
>
>
>
>
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull RemoveThis @cybertrails.com> wrote in message
> news:OuidnfYRRIdGBgXcRVn-sQ@sedona.net...
>> This bolt is indeed devilishly tight, and I'm looking for all the benefit
>> I can get. It makes sense to backstop the pulley or crankshaft as firmly
>> as possible in order to prevent the impact from being distributed through
>> the power train. In any event, the tool is on its way. There must be a
>> reason Honda made the fitment for the tool and prescribed a tool to use.
>>
>> If my gun can't get it with the tool, I'll rent a bigger one. But I'd
>> think an honest 500 ft-lbs delivered to the bolt-crank junction should do
>> the trick. It would be interesting to know what torques there actually
>> are on these 10 year old factory originals!
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> "Steve" <hansensw RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:FmUld.906224$Gx4.325708@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>> As many timing belts as I have done, this "tool" your getting seems like
>>> a waste of money and time to me. The only time I've needed to hold the
>>> pulley was when there isn't enough room to fit a gun in (Nissan 300zx
>>> last week) A good gun WILL remove the bolt. If the gun you have didn't
>>> work try a bigger one.
>>> Also use as little extensions as possible, they reduce torque.
>>> preferably a socket on the gun, then step up until you just have the
>>> reach you need.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Stephen W. Hansen
>>> ASE Certified Auto Technician
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull RemoveThis @cybertrails.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Z9ednUF8cpd-xgjcRVn-ug@sedona.net...
>>>> Thanks, Steve. That is interesting about the bigger hammers. I can't
>>>> argue with results!
>>>>
>>>> I've ordered a holder tool for the pulley to stiffen up the work. I'll
>>>> try the 500 ft-lb, 1/2 inch drive and at-tool regulator with that. At
>>>> least there is no hurry. The rental place also has a 1 inch drive
>>>> pneumatic besides the 3/4 inch drive electric. There are options....
>>>>
>>>> As my son mentions, this pretty much answers the question of whether
>>>> the belt has been replaced before!
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> "Steve" <hansensw RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:uT5ld.890602$Gx4.248400@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>>>> Sorry I didn't get back to you.
>>>>> A 3/4 air gun sets around 750 ft lbs I believe. It was a used one on
>>>>> the snap-on truck, a central pneumatics I believe. A larger gun has
>>>>> bigger hammers, and doesn't beat you up as much as a 1/2 inch gun.
>>>>> more force goes into the socket. Working in a auto shop, we
>>>>> occasionally get the stubborn bolts, and on occasion have tried
>>>>> everyone's gun in the shop. Sometimes some will work where another one
>>>>> won't. the 3/4 has always worked. Once the shop downtown from us
>>>>> called asking if I still had such a gun, they were fighting a crank
>>>>> bolt for several hours with a huge compressor and a bunch of 1/2 inch
>>>>> guns. No success. Big Bertha did the job with no problem
>>>>> I wouldn't use heat on a crank. See if you can find a big gun and give
>>>>> it a try. Of coarse air supply is important, but usually on a small
>>>>> compressor, the initial trigger pull and the first 5 seconds will tell
>>>>> you if you are going to win.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull RemoveThis @cybertrails.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:woKdnVQPqoDBMw3cRVn-hQ@sedona.net...
>>>>>> "Steve" <hansensw RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:JrYjd.868240$Gx4.741590@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>>>>>> It's a good method, and will work sometimes. I have a 3/4 inch gun
>>>>>>> just-in-case. It always works
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Stephen W. Hansen
>>>>>>> ASE Certified Auto Technician
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> What's the peak torque on that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>> shade tree fixit man
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt