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External
Since: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 94
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:20 am
Post subject: my civic and its timing belt
Archived from groups: alt>autos>honda (more info?)
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Well I just thought I would tell the world that I actually
did my timing belt myself! This is a big deal for me, since
I've never done something like this before, though I would
like to say that I am somewhat mechanically inclined.
Some interesting things I learnt (and maybe others will want
to know?):
-The crank pulley bolt was really freakin tight. No, really
it was quite ridiculous. I took it to Honda and they broke
it for me (free of course!), it took them almost 25 minutes
to get that little b5@%ch off.
-I busted a water pump bolt whilst installing my new water
pump. I was not happy. However, it appears that I realized
in time that the bolt just wasn't getting tight, so I
stopped trying to tighten it, and reversed. I must be lucky,
because the broken portion of the bolt followed the head out
of the hole, and I didn't have a mess on my hands. I have
no idea how the hell I would have gotten a drill with an
easy out in there, without lifting the motor 1/2 way out of
the car. Yeesh.
- Its a good thing to check over everything while you are
underneath the car. I happened to notice that my Alternator
pivot bolt was MISSING! I have no idea how the hell that
happened, all I can say is "I didn't do it!" i had it in to
do the alternator about a year ago. So sometime between
then and now, the bolt worked its way out. Talk about
SCARY.
Anyways, enough of my rant. I'm just elated that I got it
done.
t |
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External
Since: Dec 22, 2003
Posts: 214
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:21 pm
Post subject: Re: my civic and its timing belt [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote
> Well I just thought I would tell the world that I actually
> did my timing belt myself! This is a big deal for me, since
> I've never done something like this before, though I would
> like to say that I am somewhat mechanically inclined.
>
> Some interesting things I learnt (and maybe others will want
> to know?):
>
> -The crank pulley bolt was really freakin tight. No, really
> it was quite ridiculous. I took it to Honda and they broke
> it for me (free of course!),
Of course?
They didn't even lecture you about how you should have it done there?
If not, you must have charm!
> it took them almost 25 minutes
> to get that little b5@%ch off.
Wow. They should have called Caroline's Garage (underwritten by Eric,
Mike, Curly, Jim, Rex, George et al.). Woulda had it off in five.
> -I busted a water pump bolt whilst installing my new water
> pump. I was not happy. However, it appears that I realized
> in time that the bolt just wasn't getting tight, so I
> stopped trying to tighten it, and reversed. I must be lucky,
> because the broken portion of the bolt followed the head out
> of the hole, and I didn't have a mess on my hands. I have
> no idea how the hell I would have gotten a drill with an
> easy out in there, without lifting the motor 1/2 way out of
> the car. Yeesh.
"Whew" indeed.
> - Its a good thing to check over everything while you are
> underneath the car. I happened to notice that my Alternator
> pivot bolt was MISSING!
So one bolt was holding it in place??
If so, pretty cool that the one bolt was sufficient.
Good update.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 94
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:21 pm
Post subject: Re: my civic and its timing belt [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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That's right, the only bolt holding the alternator in place
was the tensioner bolt on the bracket attached to the water
pump. I guess I am very fortunate that it held.
As far as the crank pulley bolt, I took it to a friend's
shop first. We went at it with his 650 ft-lb gun and a
7.5 HP compressor with 20 Gal tank. No go. We then
proceeded to try using a huge breaker bar (6 ft long), I
stood on the brake and put it in 5th. We wound it around
until all the slack in the tranny was used up, got to the
end of the slack, and just could not budge the bolt.
The dealership I use here in Winnipeg is pretty good. They
know what I can do and what I can't, and they also realize
that I am a poor starving student who can't afford their
high shop rates. So they cut me deals like this fairly
regularly.
later
t >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt |
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External
Since: Dec 22, 2003
Posts: 214
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:21 pm
Post subject: Re: my civic and its timing belt [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote
> That's right, the only bolt holding the alternator in place
> was the tensioner bolt on the bracket attached to the water
> pump. I guess I am very fortunate that it held.
>
> As far as the crank pulley bolt, I took it to a friend's
> shop first. We went at it with his 650 ft-lb gun and a
> 7.5 HP compressor with 20 Gal tank. No go. We then
> proceeded to try using a huge breaker bar (6 ft long), I
> stood on the brake and put it in 5th. We wound it around
> until all the slack in the tranny was used up, got to the
> end of the slack, and just could not budge the bolt.
Hm. All reports here are that the pulley bolts can indeed be hell.
Your approach is of course one of many, but I'm not sure it's all that
reliable. Or it may be, but those who get it to work show signs of
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder immediately after the bolt cracks free.
I don't think I've ever read of a special pulley holder tool (bought
retail or made at home, customized to the particular pulley) failing
to work.
Anyway, you're home free now. Next time should be much easier, no?
> The dealership I use here in Winnipeg is pretty good. They
> know what I can do and what I can't, and they also realize
> that I am a poor starving student who can't afford their
> high shop rates. So they cut me deals like this fairly
> regularly.
I wish some of these Canadian dealerships would move South!  <!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt |
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External
Since: Sep 17, 2004
Posts: 57
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:21 am
Post subject: Re: my civic and its timing belt [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Now that you've done it, congrats. Doing the water pump is definitely worth
the time and money spent.
Here is a trick I use on all timing belts. I paint marks on the belts and
pullies prior to disassembly. I mark them so each pulley has a unique mark,
so they can't be placed on the wrong pulley. I then transfer the marks to
the new belt, counting each tooth, to be sure it is the correct belt. Then I
place the new belt on, lining up all my marks.
This helps alot if the car has 4 cams.
--
Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Auto Technician
"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message
news:1300090c0317113784bbd719dec0956b@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...
> Well I just thought I would tell the world that I actually
> did my timing belt myself! This is a big deal for me, since
> I've never done something like this before, though I would
> like to say that I am somewhat mechanically inclined.
>
> Some interesting things I learnt (and maybe others will want
> to know?):
>
> -The crank pulley bolt was really freakin tight. No, really
> it was quite ridiculous. I took it to Honda and they broke
> it for me (free of course!), it took them almost 25 minutes
> to get that little b5@%ch off.
> -I busted a water pump bolt whilst installing my new water
> pump. I was not happy. However, it appears that I realized
> in time that the bolt just wasn't getting tight, so I
> stopped trying to tighten it, and reversed. I must be lucky,
> because the broken portion of the bolt followed the head out
> of the hole, and I didn't have a mess on my hands. I have
> no idea how the hell I would have gotten a drill with an
> easy out in there, without lifting the motor 1/2 way out of
> the car. Yeesh.
> - Its a good thing to check over everything while you are
> underneath the car. I happened to notice that my Alternator
> pivot bolt was MISSING! I have no idea how the hell that
> happened, all I can say is "I didn't do it!" i had it in to
> do the alternator about a year ago. So sometime between
> then and now, the bolt worked its way out. Talk about
> SCARY.
>
> Anyways, enough of my rant. I'm just elated that I got it
> done.
>
> t
><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt |
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External
Since: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 6
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:40 am
Post subject: Re: my civic and its timing belt [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Caroline" <caroline10027remove.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in
> Hm. All reports here are that the pulley bolts can indeed be hell.
>but those who get it to work show signs of Post Traumatic Stress
> Disorder immediately after the bolt cracks free.
Every Acura/Honda I've worked on show no difficulties or PSDs.
I never use impact guns, breaker bars, special pulley holders.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt |
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External
Since: Oct 30, 2004
Posts: 1722
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:07 am
Post subject: Re: my civic and its timing belt [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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My son and I tried to do the belt on his '94 Acura, and the weenie 230 ft-lb
impact I had didn't even come close. The 18 inch breaker bar was inadequate,
too. Now I'm looking at better impact drivers - there is a 500 ft-lb Husky
for $100 at Home Depot, but I'd like to see more powerful choices.
NAPA had a 1" drive 1400+ ft-lb mama listed in their catalog. Betcha that
would do the job, if it didn't rip the engine out of the mounts! I'd love to
rent one of those babies for the crank bolt. Imagine - the bolt head is
smaller than the drive end.
When I first did the belt in our rear wheel drive Volvo, I put the breaker
bar on a floor jack and lifted. Nearly had the front wheels off the ground
before it started moving. (I'm sure glad they were new engine mounts.) There
just isn't any room for that in the Honda.
I think you were lucky, Ricky, or not the first person to loosen those
bolts.
Mike
"Ricky Spartacus" <rickyspartan.DeleteThis@mailandnews.com,ricspa@yahoo.com> wrote in
message news:1099906667.WMLXbw3I7hz3dG5VwcVtaQ@bubbanews...
> "Caroline" <caroline10027remove.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in
>
>> Hm. All reports here are that the pulley bolts can indeed be hell.
>>but those who get it to work show signs of Post Traumatic Stress
>> Disorder immediately after the bolt cracks free.
>
> Every Acura/Honda I've worked on show no difficulties or PSDs.
> I never use impact guns, breaker bars, special pulley holders.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt |
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External
Since: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:21 pm
Post subject: Re: my civic and its timing belt [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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disallow wrote:
> Well I just thought I would tell the world that I actually
> did my timing belt myself! This is a big deal for me, since
> I've never done something like this before, though I would
> like to say that I am somewhat mechanically inclined.
>
> Some interesting things I learnt (and maybe others will want
> to know?):
>
> -The crank pulley bolt was really freakin tight. No, really
> it was quite ridiculous. I took it to Honda and they broke
> it for me (free of course!), it took them almost 25 minutes
> to get that little b5@%ch off.
> -I busted a water pump bolt whilst installing my new water
> pump. I was not happy. However, it appears that I realized
> in time that the bolt just wasn't getting tight, so I
> stopped trying to tighten it, and reversed. I must be lucky,
> because the broken portion of the bolt followed the head out
> of the hole, and I didn't have a mess on my hands. I have
> no idea how the hell I would have gotten a drill with an
> easy out in there, without lifting the motor 1/2 way out of
> the car. Yeesh.
> - Its a good thing to check over everything while you are
> underneath the car. I happened to notice that my Alternator
> pivot bolt was MISSING! I have no idea how the hell that
> happened, all I can say is "I didn't do it!" i had it in to
> do the alternator about a year ago. So sometime between
> then and now, the bolt worked its way out. Talk about
> SCARY.
>
> Anyways, enough of my rant. I'm just elated that I got it
> done.
>
> t
>
I tried to do the timing belt on a Toyota about 20 years ago and got
stuck at the crank pulley bolt. Then a friend said that all you do is
jam the socket wrench into the bumper, or whatever, and then just turn
the key ever so quickly. You just want to turn it over. Apparently it
spins off on it's own.
By the time I heard the trick I had gotten rid of the car. I wonder if
anyone had tried it with a honda?
Peter H<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt |
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External
Since: Dec 22, 2003
Posts: 214
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:55 pm
Post subject: Re: my civic and its timing belt [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ricky Spartacus" <rickyspartan RemoveThis @mailandnews.com,ricspa@yahoo.com>
wrote
> "Caroline" <caroline10027remove RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in
>
> > Hm. All reports here are that the pulley bolts can indeed be hell.
> >but those who get it to work show signs of Post Traumatic Stress
> > Disorder immediately after the bolt cracks free.
>
> Every Acura/Honda I've worked on show no difficulties or PSDs.
> I never use impact guns, breaker bars, special pulley holders.
groups.google for the numerous reports and cussing on the subject
consistent with my statement above. >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt |
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External
Since: Dec 22, 2003
Posts: 214
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:03 pm
Post subject: Re: my civic and its timing belt [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull.RemoveThis@cybertrails.com> wrote
snip for conciseness
> I think you were lucky, Ricky, or not the first person to loosen
those
> bolts.
It's crossed my mind to break my 91 Civic's pulley bolt free and then
torque it to spec once a year, to help preclude headaches when I
actually have to change the timing belt every six years/90k miles
(for my Civic).
I am convinced it's the heat cycling that raises the breakaway torque
to estimates of over 500 ft-lbs in many cases. That is, during
operation, the bolt gets very hot and stretches (expands). The
rotation of the crankshaft (of course so as to tighten the bolt) can
and does tighten the bolt. When the engine cools, the bolt contracts,
tightening it beyond the spec. of typically between 100-200 ft-lbs.
In industry, some large machinery applications have large bolts with
wells (holes) in them. By design, bolt heaters are inserted into them
to free them up, take apart the equipment, and the later re-assemble.
What's measured to achieve the proper tightness is not ft-lbs, but
length that the bolt stretches.
I've never heard of anyone seeing any dust on these pulley bolts. Mine
at 13 years and 150k miles looked new. >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt |
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External
Since: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 94
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:21 pm
Post subject: Re: my civic and its timing belt [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I wouldn't try that on a Honda, since the engine runs
COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. That means that if you tried that
little trick on a Honda, it would TIGHTEN the bolt, and perhaps
cause all sorts of headaches and cursing.
But your trick would work for pretty much any other car,
as long as it ran clockwise. (ie backwards from the way
it is meant to be.... hehehe)
t >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt |
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External
Since: Oct 30, 2004
Posts: 1722
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:26 pm
Post subject: Re: my civic and its timing belt [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I did it once with my daughter's old Toyota, and it works... but it is
really scary. The front end rose up rapidly. (As you say, no way to do it on
the Honda.) For cars where there is room for that trick, a more controlled
version is to use a floor jack under the socket handle. That way if an
engine mount lets go or the handle pops off the jackstand, at least the
engine isn't still turning.
Mike
"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message
news:2fc43da9785484d0d9c9780d2fc149e0@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...
>I wouldn't try that on a Honda, since the engine runs
> COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. That means that if you tried that
> little trick on a Honda, it would TIGHTEN the bolt, and perhaps
> cause all sorts of headaches and cursing.
>
> But your trick would work for pretty much any other car,
> as long as it ran clockwise. (ie backwards from the way
> it is meant to be.... hehehe)
>
> t
><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt |
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External
Since: Sep 17, 2004
Posts: 57
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:20 am
Post subject: Re: my civic and its timing belt [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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It's a good method, and will work sometimes. I have a 3/4 inch gun
just-in-case. It always works
--
Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Auto Technician
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull.DeleteThis@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:F9KdnXmvgJ9Otw3cRVn-1Q@sedona.net...
>I did it once with my daughter's old Toyota, and it works... but it is
>really scary. The front end rose up rapidly. (As you say, no way to do it
>on the Honda.) For cars where there is room for that trick, a more
>controlled version is to use a floor jack under the socket handle. That way
>if an engine mount lets go or the handle pops off the jackstand, at least
>the engine isn't still turning.
>
> Mike
>
> "disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message
> news:2fc43da9785484d0d9c9780d2fc149e0@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...
>>I wouldn't try that on a Honda, since the engine runs
>> COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. That means that if you tried that
>> little trick on a Honda, it would TIGHTEN the bolt, and perhaps
>> cause all sorts of headaches and cursing.
>>
>> But your trick would work for pretty much any other car,
>> as long as it ran clockwise. (ie backwards from the way
>> it is meant to be.... hehehe)
>>
>> t
>>
>
><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt |
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External
Since: Oct 30, 2004
Posts: 1722
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:47 am
Post subject: Re: my civic and its timing belt [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Steve" <hansensw.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JrYjd.868240$Gx4.741590@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> It's a good method, and will work sometimes. I have a 3/4 inch gun
> just-in-case. It always works
>
>
> --
> Stephen W. Hansen
> ASE Certified Auto Technician
>
>
What's the peak torque on that?
Mike
shade tree fixit man >> Stay informed about: my civic and its timing belt |
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External
Since: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 94
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:27 pm
Post subject: Re: my civic and its timing belt [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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