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Next: 1937 Studebaker parts
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External
Since: Sep 25, 2006
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:22 pm
Post subject: Re: New battery, car still dead as doornail [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>autos>tech, others (more info?)
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On Jun 11, 3:00 pm, "Cleo Frank" <c... RemoveThis @nospam.com> wrote:
> Background: 1990 Mazda Protege, very well maintained, very clean
> under hood. Last night it started as usual. I drove it to the dumpster
> at the edge of my property to dump some trash, stopped the car,
> and cut engine. When I tried to start it back up, I got the usual
> click of a dead battery; digital clock very dim etc.
>
> Went to NAPA today and bought topnotch battery (the same
> kind that came in car when new). I did accidentally install
> it backwards (neg lead to pos post and pos lead to neg post),
> got some sparks, but the battery is now securely connected.
> The lead clamps are pretty clean and don't appear damaged.
> But no power whatever, clock dead, nothing.
>
> Ideas?
"Refer all servicing to qualified personnel"
So far in my life I've had a total of 3 car batteries that simply went
open
circuit, presumably from a failed internal connection. In all cases
simply replacing the battery (and verifying the charging system) was
all that was needed. Fortunately I got the polarity right the first
time.
The other 2 got changed at Sears but worked anyway. Also in all
cases everything operated normally until it died when trying to
start.
"Normally" included no dim lights, sluggish starter motor, etc.
G² |
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External
Since: Dec 10, 2007
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:15 pm
Post subject: Re: New battery, car still dead as doornail [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Oct 12, 2006
Posts: 251
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:12 am
Post subject: Re: New battery, car still dead as doornail [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Cleo Frank wrote:
> Background: 1990 Mazda Protege, very well maintained, very clean
> under hood. Last night it started as usual. I drove it to the dumpster
> at the edge of my property to dump some trash, stopped the car,
> and cut engine. When I tried to start it back up, I got the usual
> click of a dead battery; digital clock very dim etc.
>
> Went to NAPA today and bought topnotch battery (the same
> kind that came in car when new). I did accidentally install
> it backwards
Oh - oh !
> (neg lead to pos post and pos lead to neg post),
> got some sparks, but the battery is now securely connected.
> The lead clamps are pretty clean and don't appear damaged.
> But no power whatever, clock dead, nothing.
The earth strap bonding the engine to chassis is probably open.
Graham >> Stay informed about: New battery, car still dead as doornail |
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External
Since: Oct 12, 2006
Posts: 251
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:14 am
Post subject: Re: New battery, car still dead as doornail [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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default wrote:
> Do you have a schematic of the electrical system? Connecting the
> battery backwards will blow electronic gizmos and some steering
> diodes. 1990 is late enough to have an engine computer and that may
> be toast.
Believe it or not I have once stupidly done the same (just brushed the terminals
thankfully) but it seems everything was reverse protected.
Graham >> Stay informed about: New battery, car still dead as doornail |
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External
Since: Oct 12, 2006
Posts: 251
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:16 am
Post subject: Re: New battery, car still dead as doornail [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Cleo Frank wrote:
> Background: 1990 Mazda Protege, very well maintained, very clean
> under hood. Last night it started as usual. I drove it to the dumpster
> at the edge of my property to dump some trash, stopped the car,
> and cut engine. When I tried to start it back up, I got the usual
> click of a dead battery; digital clock very dim etc.
>
> Went to NAPA today and bought topnotch battery (the same
> kind that came in car when new).
Unless the original battery was shot (and even if wasn't charging well that's
probably because there were only a few strands left of the earth strap), let's
hope they'll take it back then.
I made just the same mistake when an earth strap failed on a car of mine.
Halfords took it back though.
Graham >> Stay informed about: New battery, car still dead as doornail |
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External
Since: Oct 12, 2006
Posts: 251
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:21 am
Post subject: Re: New battery, car still dead as doornail [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Mike wrote:>
> Follow the positive battery cable away from the battery, it should go
> directly to the main fuse which should be around 60 - 100 amps. It should be
> blown, replace it. If it doesn't pull out you may have to unbolt it from
> underneath. If you have no power at all you still have a blown fuse or fusible
> link.
And follow the damn NEGATIVE connections all the way to the engine block too.
I know one lass whose negative connection to the block was relying on the
accelerator cable. Come deep winter and more cranking amps, the cable blew like a
fuse ! And I'd warned that as a recent secondhand purchase it needed a good look
over for any potential sillies but girls just can't think that way it seems, you
know the "but it was working" mentality.
Graham >> Stay informed about: New battery, car still dead as doornail |
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External
Since: Oct 12, 2006
Posts: 251
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:22 am
Post subject: Re: New battery, car still dead as doornail [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Cleo Frank wrote:
> "Mike" <nospam RemoveThis @nospam.com> wrote
> >
> > Follow the positive battery cable away from the battery, it should go
> > directly to the main fuse which should be around 60 - 100 amps. It should
> > be blown, replace it. If it doesn't pull out you may have to unbolt it
> > from underneath. If you have no power at all you still have a blown fuse
> > or fusible link.
>
> Main fuse? This one is not in the little box with the rest of the fuses?
Not all cars are the same. Don't worry.
Graham >> Stay informed about: New battery, car still dead as doornail |
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External
Since: Oct 12, 2006
Posts: 251
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:24 am
Post subject: Re: New battery, car still dead as doornail [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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DaveM wrote:
> There is a chance that the heavy
> cable from battery negative to chassis (or engine), or the cable from battery
> positive to the starter or starter relay is loose
At least one other person here has some brains. The symptoms are classic.
Graham >> Stay informed about: New battery, car still dead as doornail |
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External
Since: Oct 12, 2006
Posts: 251
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:07 am
Post subject: Re: New battery, car still dead as doornail [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Jerry G." wrote:
> I would check that the connections are on taught. What you are
> describing is the alternator is probably not properly charging the
> battery.
No is isn't.
> Sometimes when a battery in a car goes bad, it also takes the
> alternator with it.
Just how ?
> There are times when the alternator goes first and
> damages the battery because it overcharges the battery and then goes
> shorted from overheating.
He's only driven to the edge of his plot FFS !
I'm 99.9% certain it's a broken earth strap. You can usually check easily with a
heavy duty jump lead placed between some good (unpainted) contacts points on the
engine block and car chassis, re-making the connection, unless it's further back
the chain right at the battery (but unlikely).
Graham >> Stay informed about: New battery, car still dead as doornail |
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External
Since: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 91
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(Msg. 25) Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:07 am
Post subject: Re: New battery, car still dead as doornail [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>
>I'm 99.9% certain it's a broken earth strap. You can usually check easily with a
>heavy duty jump lead placed between some good (unpainted) contacts points on the
>engine block and car chassis, re-making the connection, unless it's further back
>the chain right at the battery (but unlikely).
>
>Graham
When you hook up the battery backwards (the OP did) it doesn't cause
the "earth strap" to break. It burns out the fusible links or blows
fuses and maybe even cooks some electronic components.
Steve B. >> Stay informed about: New battery, car still dead as doornail |
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External
Since: Jun 12, 2008
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 26) Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:39 am
Post subject: Re: New battery, car still dead as doornail [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Jun 12, 12:20 am, Steve B. <n....RemoveThis@none.com> wrote:
> >I'm 99.9% certain it's a broken earth strap. You can usually check easily with a
> >heavy duty jump lead placed between some good (unpainted) contacts points on the
> >engine block and car chassis, re-making the connection, unless it's further back
> >the chain right at the battery (but unlikely).
>
> >Graham
>
> When you hook up the battery backwards (the OP did) it doesn't cause
> the "earth strap" to break. It burns out the fusible links or blows
> fuses and maybe even cooks some electronic components.
Alternator diodes are a good possibility. And many other more
expensive things
if they were not polarity protected.
>
> Steve B. >> Stay informed about: New battery, car still dead as doornail |
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External
Since: Jun 11, 2008
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 27) Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:58 am
Post subject: Re: New battery, car still dead as doornail [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 03:14:31 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>default wrote:
>
>> Do you have a schematic of the electrical system? Connecting the
>> battery backwards will blow electronic gizmos and some steering
>> diodes. 1990 is late enough to have an engine computer and that may
>> be toast.
>
>Believe it or not I have once stupidly done the same (just brushed the terminals
>thankfully) but it seems everything was reverse protected.
>
>Graham
I knew a guy who did that to a company truck - just long enough to fry
one or two diodes - from that moment on the charging indicator would
glow dimly all the time but otherwise it ran OK.
--
----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- >> Stay informed about: New battery, car still dead as doornail |
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External
Since: Oct 12, 2006
Posts: 251
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(Msg. 28) Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:20 am
Post subject: Re: New battery, car still dead as doornail [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Steve B." wrote:
> >
> >I'm 99.9% certain it's a broken earth strap. You can usually check easily with a
> >heavy duty jump lead placed between some good (unpainted) contacts points on the
> >engine block and car chassis, re-making the connection, unless it's further back
> >the chain right at the battery (but unlikely).
> >
> >Graham
>
> When you hook up the battery backwards (the OP did) it doesn't cause
> the "earth strap" to break.
I didn't say it did.
The OP says it failed to re-satrt long before he fitted the replacement battery.
Did you even bother to read the post properly ?
Graham
> It burns out the fusible links or blows
> fuses and maybe even cooks some electronic components.
Never cooked any for me, but it was just a brief touch. Wouldn't have given the
alternator diodes too long to live.
Graham >> Stay informed about: New battery, car still dead as doornail |
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External
Since: Aug 24, 2005
Posts: 226
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(Msg. 29) Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:45 am
Post subject: Re: New battery, car still dead as doornail [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Cleo Frank <cf RemoveThis @nospam.com> wrote:
>Background: 1990 Mazda Protege, very well maintained, very clean
>under hood. Last night it started as usual. I drove it to the dumpster
>at the edge of my property to dump some trash, stopped the car,
>and cut engine. When I tried to start it back up, I got the usual
>click of a dead battery; digital clock very dim etc.
Sounds good. It would be a good idea to check the voltage with a meter
when running and not running so you know if it's just the battery or something
else, but that would indicate the battery.
>Went to NAPA today and bought topnotch battery (the same
>kind that came in car when new). I did accidentally install
>it backwards (neg lead to pos post and pos lead to neg post),
>got some sparks, but the battery is now securely connected.
>The lead clamps are pretty clean and don't appear damaged.
>But no power whatever, clock dead, nothing.
>
>Ideas?
If you are lucky, you have just blown the fusible links on the battery
lines. More likely you have blown some fuses too. Worst case you've
blown the alternator, ECU, and a bunch of sensors with the reverse polarity
as well.
--scott
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"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." >> Stay informed about: New battery, car still dead as doornail |
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External
Since: Jun 11, 2008
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 30) Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:58 am
Post subject: Update (for anyone interested). Problem discovered [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Cleo Frank" <cf.RemoveThis@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:fNY3k.3755$bh5.2344@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> Background: 1990 Mazda Protege, very well maintained, very clean
> under hood. Last night it started as usual. I drove it to the dumpster
> at the edge of my property to dump some trash, stopped the car,
> and cut engine. When I tried to start it back up, I got the usual
> click of a dead battery; digital clock very dim etc.
>
> Went to NAPA today and bought topnotch battery (the same
> kind that came in car when new). I did accidentally install
> it backwards (neg lead to pos post and pos lead to neg post),
> got some sparks, but the battery is now securely connected.
> The lead clamps are pretty clean and don't appear damaged.
> But no power whatever, clock dead, nothing.
It WAS the main fuse (80 A). The box that contained this thing
was right in front of my eyes practically the whole time, next to
battery ..DUHHHHHH
Car is now its usual chipper self!
THANKS!
>
> Ideas?
> >> Stay informed about: New battery, car still dead as doornail |
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