Water in E39 back footwells

Here's the answer:

There is a seal on the inside of the door that is known to fail. It is
basically a plastic membrane, and the seal is such that water entering via
the window seals is allowed to drain down through the door and exit via the
space between the door and the door jambs. If the seal is compromised you
will see water in the footwells with absolutely no indication as to where it
might come from.

You can prove this by shutting the door over a large garbage bag in that
runs from the top of the door to the bottom. It should stick out on the top
and bottom when the door is closed. You can now take it to a (touchless)
high pressure car wash and see that no water has gotten in.

This is a known issue, but not a service item unless the car is under
warranty.




"Not Me" <Notme DeleteThis @bitbucket.gone> wrote in message
news:blutl01uj2qg7rmgktjrttoi75t5kihl2c@4ax.com...
 > The bottom of each back passenger footwell recently became wet (and
 > smelly). The right side is sodden, and the left side is wet. There's
 > no water or trace of dampness that I can find in the front footwells.
 > The A/C condensate drain appears to be draining OK. There's no sign
 > of water ingress that I can see. It's an '01 with 35K miles, properly
 > maintained, etc.
 >
 > I googled back in this group for similar problems but didn't see
 > anything.
 >
 > I'll take it to the dealer on Monday, but I just wondered if anyone
 > had any suggestion for something silly that I've overlooked? And no,
 > I didn't leave the windows open in the rain...
 >
 > --
 > Dan.
 > --
 > Dan Drake<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Water in E39 back footwells 

Excellent... Thanks for the info!

Deep

"tech27" <tech27 DeleteThis @mail.anonymizer.com> wrote in message
news:UW78d.13152$NC6.2711@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net...
 > Here's the answer:
 >
 > There is a seal on the inside of the door that is known to fail. It is
 > basically a plastic membrane, and the seal is such that water entering via
 > the window seals is allowed to drain down through the door and exit via
the
 > space between the door and the door jambs. If the seal is compromised you
 > will see water in the footwells with absolutely no indication as to where
it
 > might come from.
 >
 > You can prove this by shutting the door over a large garbage bag in that
 > runs from the top of the door to the bottom. It should stick out on the
top
 > and bottom when the door is closed. You can now take it to a (touchless)
 > high pressure car wash and see that no water has gotten in.
 >
 > This is a known issue, but not a service item unless the car is under
 > warranty.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > "Not Me" <Notme DeleteThis @bitbucket.gone> wrote in message
 > news:blutl01uj2qg7rmgktjrttoi75t5kihl2c@4ax.com...
  > > The bottom of each back passenger footwell recently became wet (and
  > > smelly). The right side is sodden, and the left side is wet. There's
  > > no water or trace of dampness that I can find in the front footwells.
  > > The A/C condensate drain appears to be draining OK. There's no sign
  > > of water ingress that I can see. It's an '01 with 35K miles, properly
  > > maintained, etc.
  > >
  > > I googled back in this group for similar problems but didn't see
  > > anything.
  > >
  > > I'll take it to the dealer on Monday, but I just wondered if anyone
  > > had any suggestion for something silly that I've overlooked? And no,
  > > I didn't leave the windows open in the rain...
  > >
  > > --
  > > Dan.
  > > --
  > > Dan Drake
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Water in E39 back footwells 

In article <UW78d.13152$NC6.2711@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net>,
tech27 <tech27.DeleteThis@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:
 > You can prove this by shutting the door over a large garbage bag in that
 > runs from the top of the door to the bottom. It should stick out on the
 > top and bottom when the door is closed. You can now take it to a
 > (touchless) high pressure car wash and see that no water has gotten in.

Talcum powder is useful for tracing where water comes from. Dusting the
area should show the path. Hoovers off easily afterwards.

--
*Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.

Dave Plowman dave.DeleteThis@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Water in E39 back footwells 

On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 21:42:10 -0400, "tech27"
<tech27 DeleteThis @mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:

 >Here's the answer:
 >
 >There is a seal on the inside of the door that is known to fail.

 >This is a known issue, but not a service item unless the car is under
 >warranty.

Thanks! A few minutes of googling found reference to TSB 510400 on
alldata.com, "Door Sound/Vapor Barrier - Water Leaks."
--
Dan Drake<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Water in E39 back footwells 

Good idea, but not in this case. You could but tons of powder on the
doorsill, and it would likely be all washed away. I tried going through the
carwash with someone else driving and me in the back seat, and I didn't see
anything except that the carpets were getting soggy.

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave DeleteThis @davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cf88405dbdave@davenoise.co.uk...
 > In article <UW78d.13152$NC6.2711@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net>,
 > tech27 <tech27 DeleteThis @mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:
  >> You can prove this by shutting the door over a large garbage bag in that
  >> runs from the top of the door to the bottom. It should stick out on the
  >> top and bottom when the door is closed. You can now take it to a
  >> (touchless) high pressure car wash and see that no water has gotten in.
 >
 > Talcum powder is useful for tracing where water comes from. Dusting the
 > area should show the path. Hoovers off easily afterwards.
 >
 > --
 > *Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
 >
 > Dave Plowman dave DeleteThis @davenoise.co.uk London SW
 > To e-mail, change noise into sound.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Water in E39 back footwells 

"Dan Drake" <ddrake.RemoveThis@comcast.notthis.net> wrote in message
news:l852m0plv9gclpbhp0seti5d5pt4j2fuu0@4ax.com...
 > On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 21:42:10 -0400, "tech27"
 > <tech27.RemoveThis@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:
 >
  >>Here's the answer:
  >>
  >>There is a seal on the inside of the door that is known to fail.
 >
  >>This is a known issue, but not a service item unless the car is under
  >>warranty.
 >
 > Thanks! A few minutes of googling found reference to TSB 510400 on
 > alldata.com, "Door Sound/Vapor Barrier - Water Leaks."
 > --
 > Dan Drake

HA! Wish I had found that before my hours of trial and error.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Water in E39 back footwells 

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:53:51 -0400, "tech27"
<tech27 DeleteThis @mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:

 >"Dan Drake" <ddrake DeleteThis @comcast.notthis.net> wrote in message
 >news:l852m0plv9gclpbhp0seti5d5pt4j2fuu0@4ax.com...
  >> On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 21:42:10 -0400, "tech27"
  >> <tech27 DeleteThis @mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:
  >>
   >>>There is a seal on the inside of the door that is known to fail.
  >>
   >>>This is a known issue, but not a service item unless the car is under
   >>>warranty.
  >>
  >> Thanks! A few minutes of googling found reference to TSB 510400 on
  >> alldata.com, "Door Sound/Vapor Barrier - Water Leaks."
 >
 >HA! Wish I had found that before my hours of trial and error.

Conclusion: local dealer has performed a no-charge operation, shown
on the invoice as "5199000 Resealed both rear door panel vapor
barrier's" (sic).

We'll see.
--
Dan Drake<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Water in E39 back footwells 

Quote:

There is a seal on the inside of the door that is known to fail.

After eliminating the windshield seal, the air intake, and the sunroof drains, it seems the cause of my E46 passenger side footwell leak is the door vapor barrier.

Quote:

It is basically a plastic membrane, and the seal is such that water entering via the window seals is allowed to drain down through the door and exit via the space between the door and the door jambs.

Clearly the interior of the doors were designed to handle some water - as things are sealed and there is a drain at the bottom-front of the door, but the question on my mind is whether the door was designed to deal with that much water.

Given that the vapor barrier seal is about 6 inches up from the bottom of the door, I'd guess that maybe a gallon of water (maybe more) accumulates in there before you start getting spill over into the interior.

The seals appear to be intended primarily for noise reduction (the snap fasteners used to hold the door skin on use simple rubber washers as seals), and water resistance, rather than submerged water proofing. The tiny single drain hole in the door similarly suggests the designers didn't anticipate that much water accumulating in the door. (I'm tempted to pop out the plastic plug at the bottom of the door, but unfortunately it would drain water into the gap between the two sets of door seals, which might still cause flooding into the car.)

All this makes me wonder if fixing the vapor barrier seal is only a temporary band-aid, and the real problem is determining how to reduce water infiltration into the door.

The window seal appears to be in decent shape and is tight against the window, so I'm not sure how so much water gets inside, but running a hose against the window for 2 minutes is adequate to fill up the bottom of the door.

Anyone have experience replacing the bottom window seal?

-Tom
[/b]
 >> Stay informed about: Water in E39 back footwells