Synthetic oil in hybrid

0W20 is the preferred specification in the manuals; however, 5W20 is a
listed acceptable alternate. That's what the dealer uses. Both are shown on
the oil filler cap also. Besides, it's getting harder to find 0W20. I found
some Mobil 1 one-quart bottles; but they more per quart than the 5qt 5W20.
...............................
Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted !


"ransley" <Mark_Ransley.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e5374d9b-1d3e-451c-8fff-bda41393c971@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 15, 11:10 pm, "Route 101©" <as....TakeThisOut@for.it> wrote:
> I plan to stay within the 5,000-mile interval to change the oil and
> filter,
> even with synthetic 0W20 or 5W20. For decades I have been using dino oil
> (usually Castrol GTX) and OEM filter, doing the change every 3,000 miles.
>
> Thanks for all the responses.
>
> "Mark A" <nob....TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ILaNj.37850$r76.5211@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
>
>
>
> > "Steve Hiner" <shi....TakeThisOut@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> >news:4804a997$0$7712$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> >> The worst moment for an internal combustion engine is when it's first
> >> started. The Camry Hybrid engine runs at a much cooler temperature than
> >> a non-Hybrid engine due to it's continuous starting and stopping.
>
> >> Why not? You don't know whether they meet the requirements, you're
> >> comparing apples to oranges! The Spec's on the synthetic oil label's
> >> are
> >> for non-Hybrid engine's.
>
> >> Route 101's service tech isn't limiting the choice of non-Synthetic
> >> oil's, just cautioning against using a synthetic oil in the Hybrid, at
> >> least at this time. A smart person would yield to the side of caution,
> >> especially when it comes to new technologies, such as the Camry Hybrid
> >> engine.
>
> > A Toyota representative is going to be extremely hesitant to recommend
> > anything other than the factory fill. This is because there is nothing
> > in
> > it for them, and a lot to loose (such as a lawsuit) if something goes
> > wrong (even if it really had nothing to do with the oil).
>
> > Plus, there is the well documented difference between what people say,
> > and
> > what they do with their own cars. Ray O has never recommended synthetic
> > oil (being a former employee of Toyota), even though we finally found
> > out
> > that he uses synthetic oil in all three of his personal vehicles.
>
> > Most smart people understand when synthetic oil has the most benefit
> > (such
> > as stop and go driving--or in this case an engine that stops and starts
> > often). A smart person can read "between the lines" of the official
> > Toyota
> > recommendations and do the right thing.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Dont use 0-20 unless your car is specified for it
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

On Apr 16, 4:26 pm, "Route 101©" <as....TakeThisOut@for.it> wrote:
> 0W20 is the preferred specification in the manuals; however, 5W20 is a
> listed acceptable alternate. That's what the dealer uses. Both are shown on
> the oil filler cap also. Besides, it's getting harder to find 0W20. I found
> some Mobil 1 one-quart bottles; but they more per quart than the 5qt 5W20.
> ..............................
> Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted !
>
> "ransley" <Mark_Rans....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:e5374d9b-1d3e-451c-8fff-bda41393c971@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 15, 11:10 pm, "Route 101©" <as....TakeThisOut@for.it> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I plan to stay within the 5,000-mile interval to change the oil and
> > filter,
> > even with synthetic 0W20 or 5W20. For decades I have been using dino oil
> > (usually Castrol GTX) and OEM filter, doing the change every 3,000 miles..
>
> > Thanks for all the responses.
>
> > "Mark A" <nob....TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:ILaNj.37850$r76.5211@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
>
> > > "Steve Hiner" <shi....TakeThisOut@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> > >news:4804a997$0$7712$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> > >> The worst moment for an internal combustion engine is when it's first
> > >> started. The Camry Hybrid engine runs at a much cooler temperature than
> > >> a non-Hybrid engine due to it's continuous starting and stopping.
>
> > >> Why not? You don't know whether they meet the requirements, you're
> > >> comparing apples to oranges! The Spec's on the synthetic oil label's
> > >> are
> > >> for non-Hybrid engine's.
>
> > >> Route 101's service tech isn't limiting the choice of non-Synthetic
> > >> oil's, just cautioning against using a synthetic oil in the Hybrid, at
> > >> least at this time. A smart person would yield to the side of caution,
> > >> especially when it comes to new technologies, such as the Camry Hybrid
> > >> engine.
>
> > > A Toyota representative is going to be extremely hesitant to recommend
> > > anything other than the factory fill. This is because there is nothing
> > > in
> > > it for them, and a lot to loose (such as a lawsuit) if something goes
> > > wrong (even if it really had nothing to do with the oil).
>
> > > Plus, there is the well documented difference between what people say,
> > > and
> > > what they do with their own cars. Ray O has never recommended synthetic
> > > oil (being a former employee of Toyota), even though we finally found
> > > out
> > > that he uses synthetic oil in all three of his personal vehicles.
>
> > > Most smart people understand when synthetic oil has the most benefit
> > > (such
> > > as stop and go driving--or in this case an engine that stops and starts
> > > often). A smart person can read "between the lines" of the official
> > > Toyota
> > > recommendations and do the right thing.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Dont use 0-20 unless your car is specified for it- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

the mobil1 site has an auto calculator of what you save in gas by
using 0-20, try it.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

ransley is right. Steve showed a lack of understanding about the
benefits of synthetic oil technology in terms of operating temperature
range.

The hybrid engine technology has been around since the 1960. Toyota
had the *marketing* advantage of bringing it into cars first. That's
all.

..

On Apr 15, 6:10 am, "Steve Hiner" <shi....RemoveThis@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> The worst moment for an internal combustion engine is when it's first
> started. The Camry Hybrid engine runs at a much cooler temperature than a
> non-Hybrid engine due to it's continuous starting and stopping.
>
> Why not? You don't know whether they meet the requirements, you're
> comparing apples to oranges! The Spec's on the synthetic oil label's are
> for non-Hybrid engine's.
>
> Route 101's service tech isn't limiting the choice of non-Synthetic oil's,
> just cautioning against using a synthetic oil in the Hybrid, at least at
> this time. A smart person would yield to the side of caution, especially
> when it comes to new technologies, such as the Camry Hybrid engine.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

The 5000 mile service interval is the Toyota Sludge interval. It's
post 97 engine designs run hotter and sludges up more easily. Honda
and GM are pushing 12,000 mile service interavls. So why do their
customers remember to change oil? Smarter?

No more than 4000 in a Toyota engine if you intend to keep it longer
than 4yr/60K. Better yet 3000 on dino oil. Use a good oil filter like
Bosch Filtech or Purolator PureOne.



On Apr 16, 8:38 am, ransley <Mark_Rans....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I think the over long 7500 mile change requirements are what is to
> blame for sludge since the avg driver drives what is considered Harsh
> conditions. At 5000 my oil always looks real bad, at 7000 its has a
> real bad odor. I try to change at 4000.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

Your interval is out of date. Toyota in 2004 reduced the 7500 mile
interval down to 5000 miles because of sludge concerns. So you think
customers of European cars, many with 15,000 mile intervals, don't
forget? Maybe Toyota is simply saying that its customers aren't so
smart?

I think you pointed out correctly that a smart person should read
between the lines of what Toyota says. Otherwise you can buy an ocean
front property in Arizona. And the seller will throw the Golden Gate
in free. (-G. Strait).



On Apr 16, 6:39 pm, "Mark A" <nob....TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote:
> People who experience sludge typically DO NOT adhere to 7500 change
> intervals. In fact, most of these people simply forgot or didn't know that
> the oil needed to be changed.
>
> Toyota sells roughly 10 million vehicles Each Year world-wide. If only one
> percent of customers don't change their oil on a regular basis, that amounts
> to 100,000 vehicles. Assuming that there are at least 50 million Toyota
> vehicles still on the road world-wide, that would mean that there are
> 500,000 vehicles being driven without regular oil changes (I think the
> number is much higher). This is how sludge occurs. It does not occur because
> of people changing their oil at 7500 mile intervals.
>
> Conventional oil will definitely show its age after about 3000 to 4000
> miles. Full synthetic oil can usually go twice that long before the same
> deterioration occurs.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

So just tell us. Do you recommend dino or synthetics for Route 101's
car?

Don't give us benefits of synthetics and then siding with the service
writer against it.




On Apr 15, 12:18 pm, "Steve Hiner" <shi....DeleteThis@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> The hybrid would therefore benefit from synthetics ability to flow
> more at lower temps
[snip]
> If, in fact, synthetic's do flow better at lower temp's than conventional
> oil, then yes it would be a benefit.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

> "ransley" <Mark_Ransley DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:59892617-8b92-4296-a6a4->7cbf119ebcc1@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> I think the over long 7500 mile change requirements are what is to
> blame for sludge since the avg driver drives what is considered Harsh
> conditions. At 5000 my oil always looks real bad, at 7000 its has a
>real bad odor. I try to change at 4000.

People who experience sludge typically DO NOT adhere to 7500 change
intervals. In fact, most of these people simply forgot or didn't know that
the oil needed to be changed.

Toyota sells roughly 10 million vehicles Each Year world-wide. If only one
percent of customers don't change their oil on a regular basis, that amounts
to 100,000 vehicles. Assuming that there are at least 50 million Toyota
vehicles still on the road world-wide, that would mean that there are
500,000 vehicles being driven without regular oil changes (I think the
number is much higher). This is how sludge occurs. It does not occur because
of people changing their oil at 7500 mile intervals.

Conventional oil will definitely show its age after about 3000 to 4000
miles. Full synthetic oil can usually go twice that long before the same
deterioration occurs.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

I personally would use the thickest oil approved for the temperature
range you operate in. It helps protect wear surfaces better while
meeting the viscosity requirements for the temperature range.

So it's 5W-20 if you operate in that temperature range. Of course
light weight oil like that has yet to meet any European high
performance standards (typically ranges in 0/5W-30/40), it's more of
an EPA oil.

However, since you use the dealer the Toyota oil filter imported from
Thailand is what you get. I would of course prefer Bosch Filtech or
Purolator PureOne. I think Toyota's shorter and taller ones are
interchangeable, I'd use the taller one for more filtering area.

http://www.boschautoparts.com/Products/Filters/PremOilFilters.htm
http://www.pureoil.com/

As I said, dino every 3000 miles with a good filter like Bosch Filtech
or Purolator PureOne.



On Apr 16, 2:26 pm, "Route 101©" <as....RemoveThis@for.it> wrote:
> 0W20 is the preferred specification in the manuals; however, 5W20 is a
> listed acceptable alternate. That's what the dealer uses. Both are shown on
> the oil filler cap also. Besides, it's getting harder to find 0W20. I found
> some Mobil 1 one-quart bottles; but they more per quart than the 5qt 5W20.
> ..............................
> Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted !
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

<johngdole DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e339412f-2aed-46b1-a4b3-54ccc9913b84@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Your interval is out of date. Toyota in 2004 reduced the 7500 mile
> interval down to 5000 miles because of sludge concerns. So you think
> customers of European cars, many with 15,000 mile intervals, don't
> forget? Maybe Toyota is simply saying that its customers aren't so
> smart?
>
> I think you pointed out correctly that a smart person should read
> between the lines of what Toyota says. Otherwise you can buy an ocean
> front property in Arizona. And the seller will throw the Golden Gate
> in free. (-G. Strait).

My interval is not out of date. I said that people with sludge do not change
their oil at least every 7500 miles. It doesn't matter what Toyota says, I
was talking about reality of how often people with sludge change their oil
(or never change it).

It is true that recent V6 Toyotas are more susceptible to sludge than most
other cars, but it is still a fact that there it is very rare for sludge to
appear in a Toyota V6 where the oil is changed at least every 7500 miles
(yes I know Toyota says 5000 miles). Given that a large number of people
either forget to change their oil, or don't know they need to change their
oil, then sludge will show up more often in the Toyota V6 compared to other
engines. But that does not obviate the fact that it is very rare for sludge
to appear in a engine where the oil is changed at least every 7500 miles
(yes I know says 5000).
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

<johngdole.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ee97bbf2-274d-4ad4-a61d-76e5254fe187@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> The 5000 mile service interval is the Toyota Sludge interval. It's
> post 97 engine designs run hotter and sludges up more easily. Honda
> and GM are pushing 12,000 mile service interavls. So why do their
> customers remember to change oil? Smarter?
>
> No more than 4000 in a Toyota engine if you intend to keep it longer
> than 4yr/60K. Better yet 3000 on dino oil. Use a good oil filter like
> Bosch Filtech or Purolator PureOne.

Anyone concerned about sludge (anyone with a Toyota V6) would be foolish to
use anything but a full synthetic. You can safely go 5000 miles on a full
synthetic (and probably a bit longer) which makes the price differential
with conventional oil at 3000 mile changes fairly close to the same cost.
This is especially true if you consider that a full synthetic will typically
yield about 1-2% better fuel economy.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

On Apr 16, 8:39 pm, "Mark A" <nob....DeleteThis@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > "ransley" <Mark_Rans....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:59892617-8b92-4296-a6a4->7cbf119eb__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i?a63jfAD$z__@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> > I think the over long 7500 mile change requirements are what is to
> > blame for sludge since the avg driver drives what is considered Harsh
> > conditions. At 5000 my oil always looks real bad, at 7000 its has a
>
>  >real bad odor. I try to change at 4000.
>
> People who experience sludge typically DO NOT adhere to 7500 change
> intervals. In fact, most of these people simply forgot  or didn't know that
> the oil needed to be changed.
>
> Toyota sells roughly 10 million vehicles Each Year world-wide. If only one
> percent of customers don't change their oil on a regular basis, that amounts
> to 100,000 vehicles. Assuming that there are at least 50 million Toyota
> vehicles still on the road world-wide, that would mean that there are
> 500,000 vehicles being driven without regular oil changes (I think the
> number is much higher). This is how sludge occurs. It does not occur because
> of people changing their oil at 7500 mile intervals.
>
> Conventional oil will definitely show its age after about 3000 to 4000
> miles. Full synthetic oil can usually go twice that long before the same
> deterioration occurs.

Real true, my sister brought her new car by with 9000 miles, I checked
the oil and it Stank bad, I asked when she changed it and she said, I
havnt, I add oil if its low! I still say 7500 is way overdue
considering 90% of us drive what is considered heavy usage. 3000 is
realistic, even the synthetic since the additives cook out, blowby
kills oil, the motor wears, and dirt does enter it. Now run Propane,
and oild does stay clean 3x as long, gasolene blowby if full of
contaminents
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

On Apr 16, 10:37 pm, johngd....RemoveThis@hotmail.com wrote:
> Your interval is out of date. Toyota in 2004 reduced the 7500 mile
> interval down to 5000 miles because of sludge concerns. So you think
> customers of European cars, many with 15,000 mile intervals, don't
> forget?  Maybe Toyota is simply saying that its customers aren't so
> smart?
>
> I think you pointed out correctly that a smart person should read
> between the lines of what Toyota says. Otherwise you can buy an ocean
> front property in Arizona. And the seller will throw the Golden Gate
> in free. (-G. Strait).
>
> On Apr 16, 6:39 pm, "Mark A" <nob....RemoveThis@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > People who experience sludge typically DO NOT adhere to 7500 change
> > intervals. In fact, most of these people simply forgot  or didn't know that
> > the oil needed to be changed.
>
> > Toyota sells roughly 10 million vehicles Each Year world-wide. If only one
> > percent of customers don't change their oil on a regular basis, that amounts
> > to 100,000 vehicles. Assuming that there are at least 50 million Toyota
> > vehicles still on the road world-wide, that would mean that there are
> > 500,000 vehicles being driven without regular oil changes (I think the
> > number is much higher). This is how sludge occurs. It does not occur because
> > of people changing their oil at 7500 mile intervals.
>
> > Conventional oil will definitely show its age after about 3000 to 4000
> > miles. Full synthetic oil can usually go twice that long before the same
> > deterioration occurs.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I didnt know 15000 existed, and I dont mean toyota by itself, my Volvo
is at 7500 but I have seen the oil look totaly black at 2000 in winter
-city driving and ok at 4500 in city hwy driving. It comes down to a
person knowing how oil should look and setting their own schedule
based upon how he drives. In my city area its 3- 5000, in the country
it should be alot more. Severe driving conditions is what all overlook
and its how most of the US drives. City, short trip use is severe.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

On Apr 17, 12:47 am, "Mark A" <nob... RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote:
> <johngd... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:e339412f-2aed-46b1-a4b3-54ccc9913b84@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Your interval is out of date. Toyota in 2004 reduced the 7500 mile
> > interval down to 5000 miles because of sludge concerns. So you think
> > customers of European cars, many with 15,000 mile intervals, don't
> > forget?  Maybe Toyota is simply saying that its customers aren't so
> > smart?
>
> > I think you pointed out correctly that a smart person should read
> > between the lines of what Toyota says. Otherwise you can buy an ocean
> > front property in Arizona. And the seller will throw the Golden Gate
> > in free. (-G. Strait).
>
> My interval is not out of date. I said that people with sludge do not change
> their oil at least every 7500 miles. It doesn't matter what Toyota says, I
> was talking about reality of how often people with sludge change their oil
> (or never change it).
>
> It is true that recent V6 Toyotas are more susceptible to sludge than most
> other cars, but it is still a fact that there it is very rare for sludge to
> appear in a Toyota V6 where the oil is changed at least every 7500 miles
> (yes I know Toyota says 5000 miles). Given that a large number of people
> either forget to change their oil, or don't know they need to change their
> oil, then sludge will show up more often in the Toyota V6 compared to other
> engines. But that does not obviate the fact that it is very rare for sludge
> to appear in a engine where the oil is changed at least every 7500 miles
> (yes I know says 5000).

Ok sorry, for my type of city driving I cant go 7500 , I cant go 5000.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid