Synthetic oil in hybrid

On Aug 8, 11:32 am, "Mark A" <nob....TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote:
> "Route 101©" <as....TakeThisOut@for.it> wrote in message
>
> news:46b9ef38$0$7013$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > My local service manager who has been at this for almost 30 years and is
> > good (IMO) told me today he wouldn't use synthetic oil in my (2007 Camry)
> > hybrid. Something about the viscosity, IIRC, and the fact that the engine
> > runs a while then stops and starts often. He said Mobil hasn't developed
> > the new formula yet, whatever that means. I didn't quite get the picture
> > from the brief conversation, as I was having my car taken in to remove the
> > original oil filter that was put on with vacuum pressure so that I
> > couldn't remove it with any filter wrench (I hate that they do that at the
> > factory).
>
> > I read other threads in her about synthetic oils, but do not understand
> > why current synthetics (e.g., Mobil 1 or Castrol) would not be advisable
> > in a hybrid, assuming oil and filter changes every 5,000 miles. Any
> > information or pointers would be appreciated. Thanks.
> > ..............................
> > Someone who thinks logically provides a nice contrast to the real world.
>
> Just another example of a Toyota dealer/employee blowing smoke out of their
> ass.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

What an idiot the service guy is, Mobil1 is the best you can get and
is the most updated in formulas.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

There are different classes of synthetics. Synthetic esters (Group V)
and Polyalphaolefin (Group IV) are better than Hydrocracked (Group
III). But any of these are better than the dino oil or cheap synthetic
blends your local dealer tries to sell you at a premium. The Camry
uses a gasoline engine, so there is an API certified motor oil for it
in the US. No exceptions.

If you need to find a guide to good synthetics or how to find good
synthetics, I would recommend studying these specs:

BMW Longlife 01
GM-LL-A-025
Mercedes MB229.5
Porsche Approval List 02
VW 502.00, 505.00, 503.01

No, Toyota doesn't have any advanced specification like the above.



On Aug 8, 9:27 am, "Route 101©" <as... DeleteThis @for.it> wrote:
> My local service manager who has been at this for almost 30 years and is
> good (IMO) told me today he wouldn't use synthetic oil in my (2007 Camry)
> hybrid. Something about the viscosity, IIRC, and the fact that the engine
> runs a while then stops and starts often. He said Mobil hasn't developed the
> new formula yet, whatever that means. I didn't quite get the picture from
> the brief conversation, as I was having my car taken in to remove the
> original oil filter that was put on with vacuum pressure so that I couldn't
> remove it with any filter wrench (I hate that they do that at the factory).
>
> I read other threads in her about synthetic oils, but do not understand why
> current synthetics (e.g., Mobil 1 or Castrol) would not be advisable in a
> hybrid, assuming oil and filter changes every 5,000 miles. Any information
> or pointers would be appreciated. Thanks.
> ..............................
> Someone who thinks logically provides a nice contrast to the real world.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

Thanks for the reply. How can I tell which group a given synthetic is in?
Tried google and got only some dated word of mouth suggestions and a
plethora of Amsoil ad sites.


<johngdole.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1186635372.380363.287180@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
There are different classes of synthetics. Synthetic esters (Group V)
and Polyalphaolefin (Group IV) are better than Hydrocracked (Group
III). But any of these are better than the dino oil or cheap synthetic
blends your local dealer tries to sell you at a premium. The Camry
uses a gasoline engine, so there is an API certified motor oil for it
in the US. No exceptions.

If you need to find a guide to good synthetics or how to find good
synthetics, I would recommend studying these specs:

BMW Longlife 01
GM-LL-A-025
Mercedes MB229.5
Porsche Approval List 02
VW 502.00, 505.00, 503.01

No, Toyota doesn't have any advanced specification like the above.



On Aug 8, 9:27 am, "Route 101©" <as....DeleteThis@for.it> wrote:
> My local service manager who has been at this for almost 30 years and is
> good (IMO) told me today he wouldn't use synthetic oil in my (2007 Camry)
> hybrid. Something about the viscosity, IIRC, and the fact that the engine
> runs a while then stops and starts often. He said Mobil hasn't developed
> the
> new formula yet, whatever that means. I didn't quite get the picture from
> the brief conversation, as I was having my car taken in to remove the
> original oil filter that was put on with vacuum pressure so that I
> couldn't
> remove it with any filter wrench (I hate that they do that at the
> factory).
>
> I read other threads in her about synthetic oils, but do not understand
> why
> current synthetics (e.g., Mobil 1 or Castrol) would not be advisable in a
> hybrid, assuming oil and filter changes every 5,000 miles. Any information
> or pointers would be appreciated. Thanks.
> ..............................
> Someone who thinks logically provides a nice contrast to the real world.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

I personally use dino oil and Purolator PureOne or Bosch Filtech, but
would go with the advanced specifications listed. BMW's LL98 specs
Group III. The LL01 may be Group IV or V, I don't know. The BMW LL04
oils need to work with the new BMW filter to prevent long term
blocking of the filter element, as in Castrol's new "Clean Performance
Technology" oils.

But don't try any of these "extended service" game in a Toyota. You'll
get the synthetic benefit (Group III to V) during the 3000-5000 miles*
service, but as I mentioned in another post, the crankcase sizes and
filters of Toyotas are NOT designed for extended drain intervals. (*
Note: Toyota in 2004 reduced the 7500-mile service interval down to
5000 miles because of engine sludge problems).

I looked at the Mobiloil.com MSDS sheets, but they made no
differentiation there. So contacting the motor oil company is the most
reliable way.

In the Mobil MSDS:
"Mobil 1 5W-30 is made with a proprietary blend of high
performance synthetic basestocks fortified with an advanced additive
system."
Mobil 1 0W-40 is made with a proprietary blend of ultra high
performance synthetic basestocks fortified with Supersyn Technology.


On Aug 10, 10:06 am, "Route 101©" <as....DeleteThis@for.it> wrote:
> Thanks for the reply. How can I tell which group a given synthetic is in?
> Tried google and got only some dated word of mouth suggestions and a
> plethora of Amsoil ad sites.
>
> <johngd....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1186635372.380363.287180@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> There are different classes of synthetics. Synthetic esters (Group V)
> and Polyalphaolefin (Group IV) are better than Hydrocracked (Group
> III). But any of these are better than the dino oil or cheap synthetic
> blends your local dealer tries to sell you at a premium. The Camry
> uses a gasoline engine, so there is an API certified motor oil for it
> in the US. No exceptions.
>
> If you need to find a guide to good synthetics or how to find good
> synthetics, I would recommend studying these specs:
>
> BMW Longlife 01
> GM-LL-A-025
> Mercedes MB229.5
> Porsche Approval List 02
> VW 502.00, 505.00, 503.01
>
> No, Toyota doesn't have any advanced specification like the above.
>
> On Aug 8, 9:27 am, "Route 101©" <as....DeleteThis@for.it> wrote:
>
> > My local service manager who has been at this for almost 30 years and is
> > good (IMO) told me today he wouldn't use synthetic oil in my (2007 Camry)
> > hybrid. Something about the viscosity, IIRC, and the fact that the engine
> > runs a while then stops and starts often. He said Mobil hasn't developed
> > the
> > new formula yet, whatever that means. I didn't quite get the picture from
> > the brief conversation, as I was having my car taken in to remove the
> > original oil filter that was put on with vacuum pressure so that I
> > couldn't
> > remove it with any filter wrench (I hate that they do that at the
> > factory).
>
> > I read other threads in her about synthetic oils, but do not understand
> > why
> > current synthetics (e.g., Mobil 1 or Castrol) would not be advisable in a
> > hybrid, assuming oil and filter changes every 5,000 miles. Any information
> > or pointers would be appreciated. Thanks.
> > ..............................
> > Someone who thinks logically provides a nice contrast to the real world.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

I think the comparison is made in viscosity index, such as ASTM D 445
KV or centistokes (cSt) at 40 and 100 deg C.

If dino and synthetics both meet the requirements, why not?




On Apr 14, 6:38 pm, "Steve Hiner" <shi... RemoveThis @tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> Have you compared the optimal operating temperature(s) of synthetic's to non
> synthetic's?
>
> The Camry Hybrid gas engine doe not run the same as a non-Hybrid. The
> Hybrid starts and stops frequently during normal driving, whereas a
> non-Hybrid runs continuously. This means the Hybrid engine will run cooler
> during the same driving run compared to a non-Hybrid engine. On short
> drives, with the Hybrid engines, this cooler temperature, has the potential
> of being very damaging if the oil is too heavy and doesn't flow to right
> spots quickly or quick enough. So, an oils viscosity would be very
> important if the engine it's in doesn't get up to the oil's optimal
> operating temperature quick enough.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

Have you compared the optimal operating temperature(s) of synthetic's to non
synthetic's?

The Camry Hybrid gas engine doe not run the same as a non-Hybrid. The
Hybrid starts and stops frequently during normal driving, whereas a
non-Hybrid runs continuously. This means the Hybrid engine will run cooler
during the same driving run compared to a non-Hybrid engine. On short
drives, with the Hybrid engines, this cooler temperature, has the potential
of being very damaging if the oil is too heavy and doesn't flow to right
spots quickly or quick enough. So, an oils viscosity would be very
important if the engine it's in doesn't get up to the oil's optimal
operating temperature quick enough.



<johngdole.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1186811811.145523.255180@l22g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
I personally use dino oil and Purolator PureOne or Bosch Filtech, but
would go with the advanced specifications listed. BMW's LL98 specs
Group III. The LL01 may be Group IV or V, I don't know. The BMW LL04
oils need to work with the new BMW filter to prevent long term
blocking of the filter element, as in Castrol's new "Clean Performance
Technology" oils.

But don't try any of these "extended service" game in a Toyota. You'll
get the synthetic benefit (Group III to V) during the 3000-5000 miles*
service, but as I mentioned in another post, the crankcase sizes and
filters of Toyotas are NOT designed for extended drain intervals. (*
Note: Toyota in 2004 reduced the 7500-mile service interval down to
5000 miles because of engine sludge problems).

I looked at the Mobiloil.com MSDS sheets, but they made no
differentiation there. So contacting the motor oil company is the most
reliable way.

In the Mobil MSDS:
"Mobil 1 5W-30 is made with a proprietary blend of high
performance synthetic basestocks fortified with an advanced additive
system."
Mobil 1 0W-40 is made with a proprietary blend of ultra high
performance synthetic basestocks fortified with Supersyn Technology.


On Aug 10, 10:06 am, "Route 101©" <as....TakeThisOut@for.it> wrote:
> Thanks for the reply. How can I tell which group a given synthetic is in?
> Tried google and got only some dated word of mouth suggestions and a
> plethora of Amsoil ad sites.
>
> <johngd....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1186635372.380363.287180@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> There are different classes of synthetics. Synthetic esters (Group V)
> and Polyalphaolefin (Group IV) are better than Hydrocracked (Group
> III). But any of these are better than the dino oil or cheap synthetic
> blends your local dealer tries to sell you at a premium. The Camry
> uses a gasoline engine, so there is an API certified motor oil for it
> in the US. No exceptions.
>
> If you need to find a guide to good synthetics or how to find good
> synthetics, I would recommend studying these specs:
>
> BMW Longlife 01
> GM-LL-A-025
> Mercedes MB229.5
> Porsche Approval List 02
> VW 502.00, 505.00, 503.01
>
> No, Toyota doesn't have any advanced specification like the above.
>
> On Aug 8, 9:27 am, "Route 101©" <as....TakeThisOut@for.it> wrote:
>
> > My local service manager who has been at this for almost 30 years and is
> > good (IMO) told me today he wouldn't use synthetic oil in my (2007
> > Camry)
> > hybrid. Something about the viscosity, IIRC, and the fact that the
> > engine
> > runs a while then stops and starts often. He said Mobil hasn't developed
> > the
> > new formula yet, whatever that means. I didn't quite get the picture
> > from
> > the brief conversation, as I was having my car taken in to remove the
> > original oil filter that was put on with vacuum pressure so that I
> > couldn't
> > remove it with any filter wrench (I hate that they do that at the
> > factory).
>
> > I read other threads in her about synthetic oils, but do not understand
> > why
> > current synthetics (e.g., Mobil 1 or Castrol) would not be advisable in
> > a
> > hybrid, assuming oil and filter changes every 5,000 miles. Any
> > information
> > or pointers would be appreciated. Thanks.
> > ..............................
> > Someone who thinks logically provides a nice contrast to the real world.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

On Apr 15, 8:10 am, "Steve Hiner" <shi... DeleteThis @tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> The worst moment for an internal combustion engine is when it's first
> started.  The Camry Hybrid engine runs at a much cooler temperature than a
> non-Hybrid engine due to it's continuous starting and stopping.
>
> Why not?  You don't know whether they meet the requirements, you're
> comparing apples to oranges!  The Spec's on the synthetic oil label's are
> for non-Hybrid engine's.
>
> Route 101's service tech isn't limiting the choice of non-Synthetic oil's,
> just cautioning against using a synthetic oil in the Hybrid, at least at
> this time.  A smart person would yield to the side of caution, especially
> when it comes to new technologies, such as the Camry Hybrid engine.
>
> <johngd... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:8e89456f-0cb3-46f9-afe2-99986d14d93e@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> >I think the comparison is made in viscosity index, such as ASTM D 445
> > KV or centistokes (cSt) at 40 and 100 deg C.
>
> > If dino and synthetics both meet the requirements, why not?
>
> > On Apr 14, 6:38 pm, "Steve Hiner" <shi... DeleteThis @tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> >> Have you compared the optimal operating temperature(s) of synthetic's to
> >> non
> >> synthetic's?
>
> >> The Camry Hybrid gas engine doe not run the same as a non-Hybrid.  The
> >> Hybrid starts and stops frequently during normal driving, whereas a
> >> non-Hybrid runs continuously.  This means the Hybrid engine will run
> >> cooler
> >> during the same driving run compared to a non-Hybrid engine.  On short
> >> drives, with the Hybrid engines, this cooler temperature, has the
> >> potential
> >> of being very damaging if the oil is too heavy and doesn't flow to right
> >> spots quickly or quick enough.  So, an oils viscosity would be very
> >> important if the engine it's in doesn't get up to the oil's optimal
> >> operating temperature quick enough.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The hybrid would therefore benefit from synthetics ability to flow
more at lower temps, which is why in real cold climates regular oil
can ruin a motor from being to thick to flow when real cold out. Also
isnt synthetic less prone to sludge from cold running. Id say use
synthetic and he will get maybe 1-2 better mpg with mobil 1
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

The worst moment for an internal combustion engine is when it's first
started. The Camry Hybrid engine runs at a much cooler temperature than a
non-Hybrid engine due to it's continuous starting and stopping.

Why not? You don't know whether they meet the requirements, you're
comparing apples to oranges! The Spec's on the synthetic oil label's are
for non-Hybrid engine's.

Route 101's service tech isn't limiting the choice of non-Synthetic oil's,
just cautioning against using a synthetic oil in the Hybrid, at least at
this time. A smart person would yield to the side of caution, especially
when it comes to new technologies, such as the Camry Hybrid engine.


<johngdole DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8e89456f-0cb3-46f9-afe2-99986d14d93e@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>I think the comparison is made in viscosity index, such as ASTM D 445
> KV or centistokes (cSt) at 40 and 100 deg C.
>
> If dino and synthetics both meet the requirements, why not?
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 14, 6:38 pm, "Steve Hiner" <shi... DeleteThis @tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>> Have you compared the optimal operating temperature(s) of synthetic's to
>> non
>> synthetic's?
>>
>> The Camry Hybrid gas engine doe not run the same as a non-Hybrid. The
>> Hybrid starts and stops frequently during normal driving, whereas a
>> non-Hybrid runs continuously. This means the Hybrid engine will run
>> cooler
>> during the same driving run compared to a non-Hybrid engine. On short
>> drives, with the Hybrid engines, this cooler temperature, has the
>> potential
>> of being very damaging if the oil is too heavy and doesn't flow to right
>> spots quickly or quick enough. So, an oils viscosity would be very
>> important if the engine it's in doesn't get up to the oil's optimal
>> operating temperature quick enough.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

On Apr 15, 2:18 pm, "Steve Hiner" <shi....RemoveThis@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> "ransley" <Mark_Rans....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:66b76a6f-e3d1-4bf8-8a13-baacbf9091b8@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 15, 8:10 am, "Steve Hiner" <shi....RemoveThis@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > The worst moment for an internal combustion engine is when it's first
> > started. The Camry Hybrid engine runs at a much cooler temperature than a
> > non-Hybrid engine due to it's continuous starting and stopping.
>
> > Why not? You don't know whether they meet the requirements, you're
> > comparing apples to oranges! The Spec's on the synthetic oil label's are
> > for non-Hybrid engine's.
>
> > Route 101's service tech isn't limiting the choice of non-Synthetic oil's,
> > just cautioning against using a synthetic oil in the Hybrid, at least at
> > this time. A smart person would yield to the side of caution, especially
> > when it comes to new technologies, such as the Camry Hybrid engine.
>
> > <johngd....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:8e89456f-0cb3-46f9-afe2-99986d14d93e@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > >I think the comparison is made in viscosity index, such as ASTM D 445
> > > KV or centistokes (cSt) at 40 and 100 deg C.
>
> > > If dino and synthetics both meet the requirements, why not?
>
> > > On Apr 14, 6:38 pm, "Steve Hiner" <shi....RemoveThis@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> > >> Have you compared the optimal operating temperature(s) of synthetic's
> > >> to
> > >> non
> > >> synthetic's?
>
> > >> The Camry Hybrid gas engine doe not run the same as a non-Hybrid. The
> > >> Hybrid starts and stops frequently during normal driving, whereas a
> > >> non-Hybrid runs continuously. This means the Hybrid engine will run
> > >> cooler
> > >> during the same driving run compared to a non-Hybrid engine. On short
> > >> drives, with the Hybrid engines, this cooler temperature, has the
> > >> potential
> > >> of being very damaging if the oil is too heavy and doesn't flow to
> > >> right
> > >> spots quickly or quick enough. So, an oils viscosity would be very
> > >> important if the engine it's in doesn't get up to the oil's optimal
> > >> operating temperature quick enough.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> The hybrid would therefore benefit from synthetics ability to flow
> more at lower temps, which is why in real cold climates regular oil
> can ruin a motor from being to thick to flow when real cold out. Also
> isnt synthetic less prone to sludge from cold running. Id say use
> synthetic and he will get maybe 1-2 better mpg with mobil 1
>
> If, in fact, synthetic's do flow better at lower temp's than conventional
> oil, then yes it would be a benefit.  But, I've not seen proof that that's
> the case with any of the synthetic's.  Sludge isn't produced by cold(er)
> running.  It's produced by high(er) temperature breakdown within the oil
> molecules, then when the engine cools down the oil isn't as viscous as it
> once was.  Colder temperatures do effect viscosity, but, the sludge
> condition has all ready occurred.  Yes, synthetic's are less prone to
> sludging.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Synthetic pours when regular oil wont at maybe -40f is so well known
Im suprised you havnt heard about it, Sludge is made when motors dont
get warm , from 1-2 mile a day trips to the store at cold temps when
the water and gas byproducts cant boil out. My parents ruined their
oil in 2000 miles one winter, from just doing the 2 mile trip, the
same car I just put on 4500 and the oil was cleaner then the day I saw
it at 2000. I know Mobil 1 site discusses cold weather affecting oil.
Highway driving or high temp is when oils last longest.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

"ransley" <Mark_Ransley DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:66b76a6f-e3d1-4bf8-8a13-baacbf9091b8@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 15, 8:10 am, "Steve Hiner" <shi... DeleteThis @tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> The worst moment for an internal combustion engine is when it's first
> started. The Camry Hybrid engine runs at a much cooler temperature than a
> non-Hybrid engine due to it's continuous starting and stopping.
>
> Why not? You don't know whether they meet the requirements, you're
> comparing apples to oranges! The Spec's on the synthetic oil label's are
> for non-Hybrid engine's.
>
> Route 101's service tech isn't limiting the choice of non-Synthetic oil's,
> just cautioning against using a synthetic oil in the Hybrid, at least at
> this time. A smart person would yield to the side of caution, especially
> when it comes to new technologies, such as the Camry Hybrid engine.
>
> <johngd... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:8e89456f-0cb3-46f9-afe2-99986d14d93e@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> >I think the comparison is made in viscosity index, such as ASTM D 445
> > KV or centistokes (cSt) at 40 and 100 deg C.
>
> > If dino and synthetics both meet the requirements, why not?
>
> > On Apr 14, 6:38 pm, "Steve Hiner" <shi... DeleteThis @tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> >> Have you compared the optimal operating temperature(s) of synthetic's
> >> to
> >> non
> >> synthetic's?
>
> >> The Camry Hybrid gas engine doe not run the same as a non-Hybrid. The
> >> Hybrid starts and stops frequently during normal driving, whereas a
> >> non-Hybrid runs continuously. This means the Hybrid engine will run
> >> cooler
> >> during the same driving run compared to a non-Hybrid engine. On short
> >> drives, with the Hybrid engines, this cooler temperature, has the
> >> potential
> >> of being very damaging if the oil is too heavy and doesn't flow to
> >> right
> >> spots quickly or quick enough. So, an oils viscosity would be very
> >> important if the engine it's in doesn't get up to the oil's optimal
> >> operating temperature quick enough.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The hybrid would therefore benefit from synthetics ability to flow
more at lower temps, which is why in real cold climates regular oil
can ruin a motor from being to thick to flow when real cold out. Also
isnt synthetic less prone to sludge from cold running. Id say use
synthetic and he will get maybe 1-2 better mpg with mobil 1

If, in fact, synthetic's do flow better at lower temp's than conventional
oil, then yes it would be a benefit. But, I've not seen proof that that's
the case with any of the synthetic's. Sludge isn't produced by cold(er)
running. It's produced by high(er) temperature breakdown within the oil
molecules, then when the engine cools down the oil isn't as viscous as it
once was. Colder temperatures do effect viscosity, but, the sludge
condition has all ready occurred. Yes, synthetic's are less prone to
sludging.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

"Steve Hiner" <shiner.RemoveThis@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4804a997$0$7712$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> The worst moment for an internal combustion engine is when it's first
> started. The Camry Hybrid engine runs at a much cooler temperature than a
> non-Hybrid engine due to it's continuous starting and stopping.
>
> Why not? You don't know whether they meet the requirements, you're
> comparing apples to oranges! The Spec's on the synthetic oil label's are
> for non-Hybrid engine's.
>
> Route 101's service tech isn't limiting the choice of non-Synthetic oil's,
> just cautioning against using a synthetic oil in the Hybrid, at least at
> this time. A smart person would yield to the side of caution, especially
> when it comes to new technologies, such as the Camry Hybrid engine.

A Toyota representative is going to be extremely hesitant to recommend
anything other than the factory fill. This is because there is nothing in it
for them, and a lot to loose (such as a lawsuit) if something goes wrong
(even if it really had nothing to do with the oil).

Plus, there is the well documented difference between what people say, and
what they do with their own cars. Ray O has never recommended synthetic oil
(being a former employee of Toyota), even though we finally found out that
he uses synthetic oil in all three of his personal vehicles.

Most smart people understand when synthetic oil has the most benefit (such
as stop and go driving--or in this case an engine that stops and starts
often). A smart person can read "between the lines" of the official Toyota
recommendations and do the right thing.
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

"ransley" <Mark_Ransley RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:853ac4ed-aa3b-45be-ba67-d2093bd876d3@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 15, 2:18 pm, "Steve Hiner" <shi... RemoveThis @tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> "ransley" <Mark_Rans... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:66b76a6f-e3d1-4bf8-8a13-baacbf9091b8@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 15, 8:10 am, "Steve Hiner" <shi... RemoveThis @tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > The worst moment for an internal combustion engine is when it's first
> > started. The Camry Hybrid engine runs at a much cooler temperature than
> > a
> > non-Hybrid engine due to it's continuous starting and stopping.
>
> > Why not? You don't know whether they meet the requirements, you're
> > comparing apples to oranges! The Spec's on the synthetic oil label's are
> > for non-Hybrid engine's.
>
> > Route 101's service tech isn't limiting the choice of non-Synthetic
> > oil's,
> > just cautioning against using a synthetic oil in the Hybrid, at least at
> > this time. A smart person would yield to the side of caution, especially
> > when it comes to new technologies, such as the Camry Hybrid engine.
>
> > <johngd... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:8e89456f-0cb3-46f9-afe2-99986d14d93e@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > >I think the comparison is made in viscosity index, such as ASTM D 445
> > > KV or centistokes (cSt) at 40 and 100 deg C.
>
> > > If dino and synthetics both meet the requirements, why not?
>
> > > On Apr 14, 6:38 pm, "Steve Hiner" <shi... RemoveThis @tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> > >> Have you compared the optimal operating temperature(s) of synthetic's
> > >> to
> > >> non
> > >> synthetic's?
>
> > >> The Camry Hybrid gas engine doe not run the same as a non-Hybrid. The
> > >> Hybrid starts and stops frequently during normal driving, whereas a
> > >> non-Hybrid runs continuously. This means the Hybrid engine will run
> > >> cooler
> > >> during the same driving run compared to a non-Hybrid engine. On short
> > >> drives, with the Hybrid engines, this cooler temperature, has the
> > >> potential
> > >> of being very damaging if the oil is too heavy and doesn't flow to
> > >> right
> > >> spots quickly or quick enough. So, an oils viscosity would be very
> > >> important if the engine it's in doesn't get up to the oil's optimal
> > >> operating temperature quick enough.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> The hybrid would therefore benefit from synthetics ability to flow
> more at lower temps, which is why in real cold climates regular oil
> can ruin a motor from being to thick to flow when real cold out. Also
> isnt synthetic less prone to sludge from cold running. Id say use
> synthetic and he will get maybe 1-2 better mpg with mobil 1
>
> If, in fact, synthetic's do flow better at lower temp's than conventional
> oil, then yes it would be a benefit. But, I've not seen proof that that's
> the case with any of the synthetic's. Sludge isn't produced by cold(er)
> running. It's produced by high(er) temperature breakdown within the oil
> molecules, then when the engine cools down the oil isn't as viscous as it
> once was. Colder temperatures do effect viscosity, but, the sludge
> condition has all ready occurred. Yes, synthetic's are less prone to
> sludging.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Synthetic pours when regular oil wont at maybe -40f is so well known
Im suprised you havnt heard about it, Sludge is made when motors dont
get warm , from 1-2 mile a day trips to the store at cold temps when
the water and gas byproducts cant boil out. My parents ruined their
oil in 2000 miles one winter, from just doing the 2 mile trip, the
same car I just put on 4500 and the oil was cleaner then the day I saw
it at 2000. I know Mobil 1 site discusses cold weather affecting oil.
Highway driving or high temp is when oils last longest.


You are, somewhat, correct when talking about sludge production at extremely
low temperatures. I was talking about uses in area's that are normally
above freezing, on average.

Most of the complaints to Toyota, at this web site, are above freezing, on
average.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

Try this site:

Oil sludge is the breakdown product of over-stressed oil in your engine.
Oil that is stressed by contaminants and oxidation-or has to work thousands
of miles longer than it was designed to-will break down into a gel that
sticks to your engine parts. As the sludge sticks, there is less good oil to
circulate and do its protective job. This coating of gel also stores heat
instead of releasing it which stresses the radiator and cooling system.

Although at first the motor oil level may appear OK, a sludgy engine is
being damaged with EVERY stroke. Your engine may lose oil pressure, get
terrible gas mileage, and other components might mysteriously fail such as
timing belts, idle speed controls, and gaskets.

Sludge begins to appear in the oil pan and valve covers. Oil filler cap
inspection as an indicator of sludge build-up is not conclusive, as normal
engines can have a small amount of sludge and condensation present at this
'high point' of the crankcase.

http://www.schleeter.com/oil-sludge.htm
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid 

I plan to stay within the 5,000-mile interval to change the oil and filter,
even with synthetic 0W20 or 5W20. For decades I have been using dino oil
(usually Castrol GTX) and OEM filter, doing the change every 3,000 miles.

Thanks for all the responses.


"Mark A" <nobody.RemoveThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:ILaNj.37850$r76.5211@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
> "Steve Hiner" <shiner.RemoveThis@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:4804a997$0$7712$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> The worst moment for an internal combustion engine is when it's first
>> started. The Camry Hybrid engine runs at a much cooler temperature than
>> a non-Hybrid engine due to it's continuous starting and stopping.
>>
>> Why not? You don't know whether they meet the requirements, you're
>> comparing apples to oranges! The Spec's on the synthetic oil label's are
>> for non-Hybrid engine's.
>>
>> Route 101's service tech isn't limiting the choice of non-Synthetic
>> oil's, just cautioning against using a synthetic oil in the Hybrid, at
>> least at this time. A smart person would yield to the side of caution,
>> especially when it comes to new technologies, such as the Camry Hybrid
>> engine.
>
> A Toyota representative is going to be extremely hesitant to recommend
> anything other than the factory fill. This is because there is nothing in
> it for them, and a lot to loose (such as a lawsuit) if something goes
> wrong (even if it really had nothing to do with the oil).
>
> Plus, there is the well documented difference between what people say, and
> what they do with their own cars. Ray O has never recommended synthetic
> oil (being a former employee of Toyota), even though we finally found out
> that he uses synthetic oil in all three of his personal vehicles.
>
> Most smart people understand when synthetic oil has the most benefit (such
> as stop and go driving--or in this case an engine that stops and starts
> often). A smart person can read "between the lines" of the official Toyota
> recommendations and do the right thing.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Synthetic oil in hybrid