Stumbling Accel - Plug wires? Timing Gear?

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:41:04 -0500, Regal953 <regal953.DeleteThis@comcast.net>
wrote:

>Stephen Wright wrote:
>> I would appreciate any help that someone could give me. I have a
>> persistent problem with my "94 Golf III. It will regularly stumble
>> when I try to accelerate, but will smooth out if I back off. It runs
>> well when I get it to speed and the stumbling is not awful, but It
>> just doesn't seem right.
>>
>> The check engine light is on and it shows a code for the cam position
>> sensor. I have seen discussion on timing being off or the hall
>> sender's going out. A mechanic who I have had do a majority of work
>> on he car feels that it is unlikely that the hall sender is bad. (He
>> has removed the timing belt to replace a water pump. But he states it
>> is his policy to replace the belt as it was unless someone
>> specifically request work on the timing system. (Yes, I know it would
>> have made sense to ask him to check it then, but I didn't)) He states
>> that Plug wires may be the culprit.
>>
>> I have two problems. 1> I cannot afford to have the car
>> inoperable.
>> 2> I have limited funds to devote to
>> the car. (i.e. I can't spend $100 for proper plug wires if they are
>> not defective.
>>
>> What I would like from persons more knowledgeable than myself.
>>
>> Are there reasonable tests that I could do myself to help Isolate the
>> actual problem?
>> Are there low cost items that are likely to cause this?
>> How hard is it to verify whether the timing belt has slipped a tooth,
>> been installed wrong?
>>
>> .....And of course I do not yet have a Bentley Manual fo
>I'd start by looking at the spark plugs,: lean, rich, oily, etc? then
>put in a fresh set and test drive, OK? end; not OK? then I'd look at the
>rotor and dizzy cap, carbon tracked? segments worn down? crusty
>build-up? and replace if above 45k miles, including air and fuel
>filters. Unfortunately, you can't feel things out, you check them whit
>test gear and know the truth: good, no good, same for wires (pull them
>out of cap to test and look, or anything in a machine: test it, in spec?
>keep it, out of spec? replace it. When in doubt, change it out.

A friend had a newer car suffer a huge lack of power but idled fine. A
little 1/2" hose had popped off up by the air filter housing. This
happened to be on a 2002 car but loose hoses can cause a car to run
lean which will cause the car to stumble.

I have done a number of timing belts on 1980-1984 Rabbits. Every time
I get the belt off one tooth the car will idle fine but as soon as I
drive it around the block it makes little power. I go back and get the
belt adjusted properly and the car runs brilliantly. Based on my past
experience with slightly older gas VW engines with timing belts I vote
for triple checking the cam timing. On the TDI the properly way to
adjust requires a lockdown of stuff. You tension the belt and turn the
engine two complete revolutions and double check. With the TDI if you
screw up you have to rebuild or replace the head as you will bend
valves if that belt fails or is significantly off. Two full revs of
the engine turning in the correct direction will get alll the slack
out of the belt. Better chance of getting it correct.
 >> Stay informed about: Stumbling Accel - Plug wires? Timing Gear? 

I vote you deal with correcting that Cam Position Sensor fault. Wires might
fail a wet test or there might be misfiring codes if it was plugs or wires.
If the timing belt was messed with then make sure that the distributor (cam
position sensor) is correctly adjusted.
I adjust them by eye and had to pull the position pin on one distributor
after installing a timing belt on a '94-97 2.0 engine. It threw a Cam
Position code.

I just got through correcting some problems created by Firestone when they
changed the water pump and timing belt on a '02 Jetta 2.0. Tensioner was
loose and the cam jumped 3 teeth. Darn engine was still running and the
customer did not mention anything about the power loss nor mileage nor noise
from rattling components due to loose bolts.
His complaint was that the car did not start, but did on the tow truck.
That problem is just a faulty ign switch.
Also his ign transformer failed the wet test. Oh and 3 out of 4 spark plug
wire terminals were broken at the transformer end and I could not find those
broken pieces.

I hate finding so many problems caused by others, and having to correct
things that should not need correcting! grrrr
So have someone recheck the work that messed with your engine's timing belt
and also find someone that knows VWs PLEASE! lol

JMHO
--
later,
dave
(One out of many daves)

"Stephen Wright" <stephenewright.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:274b9039-8b69-4898-b4aa-e10469069c5a@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>I would appreciate any help that someone could give me. I have a
> persistent problem with my "94 Golf III. It will regularly stumble
> when I try to accelerate, but will smooth out if I back off. It runs
> well when I get it to speed and the stumbling is not awful, but It
> just doesn't seem right.
>
> The check engine light is on and it shows a code for the cam position
> sensor. I have seen discussion on timing being off or the hall
> sender's going out. A mechanic who I have had do a majority of work
> on he car feels that it is unlikely that the hall sender is bad. (He
> has removed the timing belt to replace a water pump. But he states it
> is his policy to replace the belt as it was unless someone
> specifically request work on the timing system. (Yes, I know it would
> have made sense to ask him to check it then, but I didn't)) He states
> that Plug wires may be the culprit.
>
> I have two problems. 1> I cannot afford to have the car
> inoperable.
> 2> I have limited funds to devote to
> the car. (i.e. I can't spend $100 for proper plug wires if they are
> not defective.
>
> What I would like from persons more knowledgeable than myself.
>
> Are there reasonable tests that I could do myself to help Isolate the
> actual problem?
> Are there low cost items that are likely to cause this?
> How hard is it to verify whether the timing belt has slipped a tooth,
> been installed wrong?
>
> .....And of course I do not yet have a Bentley Manual for this car.
 >> Stay informed about: Stumbling Accel - Plug wires? Timing Gear? 

"Stephen Wright" <stephenewright.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:274b9039-8b69-4898-b4aa-e10469069c5a@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> I would appreciate any help that someone could give me. I have a
> persistent problem with my "94 Golf III. It will regularly stumble
> when I try to accelerate, but will smooth out if I back off. It runs
> well when I get it to speed and the stumbling is not awful, but It
> just doesn't seem right.
>
> The check engine light is on and it shows a code for the cam position
> sensor. I have seen discussion on timing being off or the hall
> sender's going out. A mechanic who I have had do a majority of work
> on he car feels that it is unlikely that the hall sender is bad. (He
> has removed the timing belt to replace a water pump. But he states it
> is his policy to replace the belt as it was unless someone
> specifically request work on the timing system. (Yes, I know it would
> have made sense to ask him to check it then, but I didn't)) He states
> that Plug wires may be the culprit.
>
> I have two problems. 1> I cannot afford to have the car
> inoperable.
> 2> I have limited funds to devote to
> the car. (i.e. I can't spend $100 for proper plug wires if they are
> not defective.

I hope those are not the original plug wires. How old are they (years
and miles) $100 is cheap when you consider how much fuel is today and even
marginal plug wires can cost you more in mileage than new wires would cost.

Plugs and wires are consumables. They wear out.

Now having said that, I would suggest you consider the possibility of a
blocked fuel filter or a marginal fuel pump.

When was the last time the timing belt was replaced (years and miles)?

Generally it is poor economics to replace a water pump and not a timing
belt or replace a timing belt and not a water pump. Most of the cost is
shared. I am not sure about your specific engine, but many cars have
engines that will be seriously damaged if the belt goes.

It appears (I could be wrong) your approach of trying to save money on
auto maintenance is going to cost you far more than if you just followed the
prescribed maintenance.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit




>
> What I would like from persons more knowledgeable than myself.
>
> Are there reasonable tests that I could do myself to help Isolate the
> actual problem?
> Are there low cost items that are likely to cause this?
> How hard is it to verify whether the timing belt has slipped a tooth,
> been installed wrong?
>
> .....And of course I do not yet have a Bentley Manual for this car.
 >> Stay informed about: Stumbling Accel - Plug wires? Timing Gear? 

>
> I hope those are not the original plug wires. How old are they (years
> and miles) $100 is cheap when you consider how much fuel is today and even
> marginal plug wires can cost you more in mileage than new wires would cost.
>
> Plugs and wires are consumables. They wear out.
>
> Now having said that, I would suggest you consider the possibility of a
> blocked fuel filter or a marginal fuel pump.
>
> When was the last time the timing belt was replaced (years and miles)?
>
> Generally it is poor economics to replace a water pump and not a timing
> belt or replace a timing belt and not a water pump. Most of the cost is
> shared. I am not sure about your specific engine, but many cars have
> engines that will be seriously damaged if the belt goes.
>
> It appears (I could be wrong) your approach of trying to save money on
> auto maintenance is going to cost you far more than if you just followed the
> prescribed maintenance.
>
> --
Thanks to ALL for your responses.

Not sure of wire set's age. Plugs are relatively new not over 3 mos.
Light gray on the old ones, but they seemed to have been gapped wrong.
(car was stumbling then too) Timing belt was in-fact replaced with
water pump, but mechanic just kept the position where the last belt
was.( I didn't think to ask him to verify TDC and reset it if it was
wrong. ) What has to come off/ what is involved- for me to verify
that the belt is in the right position? Or to check for a clogged
filter/faulty pump?

Again, I know I need to get a good repair manual, but funds are shaky
right now.
 >> Stay informed about: Stumbling Accel - Plug wires? Timing Gear? 

Gotta to use the correct spark plugs. Non-original ones can cause running
problems!


"Stephen Wright" <stephenewright DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e6bea69c-af82-45b3-897f-904cad79bef0@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
>>
>> I hope those are not the original plug wires. How old are they
>> (years
>> and miles) $100 is cheap when you consider how much fuel is today and
>> even
>> marginal plug wires can cost you more in mileage than new wires would
>> cost.
>>
>> Plugs and wires are consumables. They wear out.
>>
>> Now having said that, I would suggest you consider the possibility of
>> a
>> blocked fuel filter or a marginal fuel pump.
>>
>> When was the last time the timing belt was replaced (years and
>> miles)?
>>
>> Generally it is poor economics to replace a water pump and not a
>> timing
>> belt or replace a timing belt and not a water pump. Most of the cost is
>> shared. I am not sure about your specific engine, but many cars have
>> engines that will be seriously damaged if the belt goes.
>>
>> It appears (I could be wrong) your approach of trying to save money
>> on
>> auto maintenance is going to cost you far more than if you just followed
>> the
>> prescribed maintenance.
>>
>> --
> Thanks to ALL for your responses.
>
> Not sure of wire set's age. Plugs are relatively new not over 3 mos.
> Light gray on the old ones, but they seemed to have been gapped wrong.
> (car was stumbling then too) Timing belt was in-fact replaced with
> water pump, but mechanic just kept the position where the last belt
> was.( I didn't think to ask him to verify TDC and reset it if it was
> wrong. ) What has to come off/ what is involved- for me to verify
> that the belt is in the right position? Or to check for a clogged
> filter/faulty pump?
>
> Again, I know I need to get a good repair manual, but funds are shaky
> right now.
 >> Stay informed about: Stumbling Accel - Plug wires? Timing Gear? 

Using chalk marks to change a belt, remove a belt, or replace a belt
is not ideal. Spending another 10 minutes to confirm that everything
is correct is the proper way. I know the procedure on my old Rabbits
and on my TDI. Not sure what it is on your car but it cannot take but
a few minutes to rotate the engine by hand and double check. Bentely
manual is what I refer to. You may have a Chiltons or some other
manual at the library that may show the procedure. On my cars I
confirm the crankshaft is at top dead center. I confirm with either a
pointer to a dimple on the camshaft gear (or a camshaft locking plate
on the TDI) that the cam is correct. On the old car I refer to the
distibutor rotor that it is pointing to the correct place. No
distributor on TDI. On my Toyota it is similar except it has a timing
chain.

This post describes what I did on the old Rabbits. The guy has newer
cars listed. http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=3652135 When I
go to German Auto Parts I see a distributor listed for a 88-92 golf.
To me that suggests that the process has not changed over the years.
Once you get to distributorless ignition the process is a bit
different. What car are you talkig about as your subject line is
lacking?

On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:10:54 -0800 (PST), Stephen Wright
<stephenewright.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>>
>> I hope those are not the original plug wires. How old are they (years
>> and miles) $100 is cheap when you consider how much fuel is today and even
>> marginal plug wires can cost you more in mileage than new wires would cost.
>>
>> Plugs and wires are consumables. They wear out.
>>
>> Now having said that, I would suggest you consider the possibility of a
>> blocked fuel filter or a marginal fuel pump.
>>
>> When was the last time the timing belt was replaced (years and miles)?
>>
>> Generally it is poor economics to replace a water pump and not a timing
>> belt or replace a timing belt and not a water pump. Most of the cost is
>> shared. I am not sure about your specific engine, but many cars have
>> engines that will be seriously damaged if the belt goes.
>>
>> It appears (I could be wrong) your approach of trying to save money on
>> auto maintenance is going to cost you far more than if you just followed the
>> prescribed maintenance.
>>
>> --
>Thanks to ALL for your responses.
>
>Not sure of wire set's age. Plugs are relatively new not over 3 mos.
>Light gray on the old ones, but they seemed to have been gapped wrong.
>(car was stumbling then too) Timing belt was in-fact replaced with
>water pump, but mechanic just kept the position where the last belt
>was.( I didn't think to ask him to verify TDC and reset it if it was
>wrong. ) What has to come off/ what is involved- for me to verify
>that the belt is in the right position? Or to check for a clogged
>filter/faulty pump?
>
>Again, I know I need to get a good repair manual, but funds are shaky
>right now.
 >> Stay informed about: Stumbling Accel - Plug wires? Timing Gear?