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Solution to GM Tech II and updates $$$$$?

 
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Student Mechanic

External


Since: Dec 21, 2011
Posts: 1



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:26 pm
Post subject: Solution to GM Tech II and updates $$$$$?
Archived from groups: alt>autos>gm (more info?)

I own an inexpensive Actron code reader but I know a Tech II
with CANdi is really necessary to perform the interactive tests
necessary to efficiently diagnose troubles in OBD-II systems.

Trouble is the price of equipment and updates. Like over $4000
for a (factory authorized?) Tech II/CANdi and $500 for the
periodically released update package:
http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-warehouse/OTC-3625-14.html

It's no wonder the GM dealer has to justifiably charge $69/hr.
But seriously, should this equipment, probably made overseas,
cost so much? A case could be made that the software, in
particular, should be open-source or sold at nominal cost to
customers and the trade. If only GM would not seemingly gouge
would-be buyers of their stuff.

That said, it is totally out of reach for me, and I presume 99%
of you too. So, for the 99%, I ask,

1. What about the $1000 units on eBay? They're obviously
replicas made in China. I've heard sometimes replicas of brand-
name products are produced in the very same factories, after
hours. Might there be unforeseen consequences associated with
this kind of transaction?
2. Has anyone seen the software published on any warez binary
group or Torrent?

I hope this newgroup finds this post useful and merits a
response.

S.M.

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Bill

External


Since: Jan 12, 2009
Posts: 9



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Solution to GM Tech II and updates $$$$$? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Student Mechanic"
> wrote in message
>
> A case could be made that the software, in
> particular, should be open-source or sold at nominal cost to
> customers and the trade.
>

The automotive local factory authorized repair shop world is WAY
behind the rest of the world when it comes to computer technology!

Some dealers have only recently installed computer networks in their
repair facilities!

And to get the latest software upgrades from the factory, you need to
connect to a computer network at the repair station.

The technology is certainly out there (in non-automotive applications)
to just connect a car to a phone line or cell phone, then do a
"windows update" type of thing. No external equipment required.

But some automotive types are just now learning that vehicles have
computers in them. Give the industry another 10 years and they may see
the light. A LOT of learning needs to be done out in the field first.

As for open source, no way! Some of that software controls things like
ABS, air bags, and other safety systems. If the manufacturer is on the
hook for all liability claims, I should think they would insist on
keeping very tight control of that software!

And I would prefer that all of the software for my vehicles comes from
the vehicle manufacturer rather than some hacker who might rig all air
bags to go off on new years or something!

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Steve W.

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Since: Oct 30, 2007
Posts: 184



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Solution to GM Tech II and updates $$$$$? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Student Mechanic wrote:
> I own an inexpensive Actron code reader but I know a Tech II
> with CANdi is really necessary to perform the interactive tests
> necessary to efficiently diagnose troubles in OBD-II systems.
>
> Trouble is the price of equipment and updates. Like over $4000
> for a (factory authorized?) Tech II/CANdi and $500 for the
> periodically released update package:
> http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-warehouse/OTC-3625-14.html
>
> It's no wonder the GM dealer has to justifiably charge $69/hr.
> But seriously, should this equipment, probably made overseas,
> cost so much? A case could be made that the software, in
> particular, should be open-source or sold at nominal cost to
> customers and the trade. If only GM would not seemingly gouge
> would-be buyers of their stuff.

GM doesn't own or sell ANY of these tools. They are all made by third
party companies.
The only thing GM does is provide updates to sensor tags and changes
that are then added to the next update for the tool.
The software will NEVER be open source, FAR to many ways that could come
back to bite the company. Or the shop owner.

Say you have your "open Source" software but because the software has
been altered it makes the ABS system lock on when the brakes are
applied, Or maybe your local code writer adds a small section of code
that allows anyone to unlock the doors by remote and steal the car?

>
> That said, it is totally out of reach for me, and I presume 99%
> of you too. So, for the 99%, I ask,

If you run a shop these days you either buy a couple good scan tools or
don't bother doing 99% of the work on ANY vehicle.
I have a Tech 2 (fully updated), An older Genisys (fully updated) and a
couple Actrons in the shop. The Actrons are handy for rapid code wipes
if you already think you have the problem repaired. They are also handy
for a quick code pull if you just want an idea of what the problem could
be. The Genisys has better graphics and speed for some items than the T2.

>
> 1. What about the $1000 units on eBay? They're obviously
> replicas made in China. I've heard sometimes replicas of brand-
> name products are produced in the very same factories, after
> hours. Might there be unforeseen consequences associated with
> this kind of transaction?
> 2. Has anyone seen the software published on any warez binary
> group or Torrent?
>
> I hope this newgroup finds this post useful and merits a
> response.
>
> S.M.
>
>
>

EVERY make uses different scan tools.

Unless you will be opening a GM only shop or plan on working on GM only
you would be better off with something like an OTC Genisys or Pegasys.

http://pegisysotc.com/
http://www.genisysotc.com/

They will do pretty much everything a T2 will do (except some items that
you need a dealer code and ID for anyway)
They work on far more vehicles and they are much cheaper overall.

You won't find the software anywhere online. It won't help you if you
could because you also need the unlock cards or codes that are on smart
cards or cartridges to activate the software. Plus it runs ONLY on the
proper hardware.

One thing to watch for on E-Bay is that the tool includes ALL cables and
updates. The cables are EXPENSIVE and the updates are as well. My normal
routine is to buy a tool then update it until the hardware becomes
outdated (speed wise or hardware-interface)

If you think that a scan tool is expensive wait till you start buying
all the tools you will actually need. By the time you get a scan tool, a
TPMS tool and a good scope and DVM you will have around 5-6K spent. Now
plan on around 8-10 K on assorted common hand tools, and add in another
5K for all the model/make specific stuff, and if you start doing
electrical stuff you can add even more.

I figure I have well over 40K in tools and this is just a small shop.

Now add in the training and updates, plus your service manual
subscriptions, building upkeep and overhead and it gets expensive VERY
quick.

Oh and pretty much all the shops will pay you around the same rate.
$10-18.00 an hour unless you have your own shop where you will probably
make less!!!

--
Steve W.
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hls

External


Since: Oct 19, 2006
Posts: 77



(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Solution to GM Tech II and updates $$$$$? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Student Mechanic" wrote in message

> But seriously, should this equipment, probably made overseas,
> cost so much?

The keywords are "intellectual property". The instrument itself could
probably
be duplicated for a fraction of the cost you are asked to pay. But the
technology that goes into making such an instrument and supplying the
software is out of reach for most of us. And that is why they can charge,
and get, such high prices.
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PeterD

External


Since: Aug 21, 2005
Posts: 294



(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Solution to GM Tech II and updates $$$$$? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 12/21/2011 4:03 PM, Student Mechanic wrote:
> I own an inexpensive Actron code reader but I know a Tech II
> with CANdi is really necessary to perform the interactive tests
> necessary to efficiently diagnose troubles in OBD-II systems.
>
> Trouble is the price of equipment and updates. Like over $4000
> for a (factory authorized?) Tech II/CANdi and $500 for the
> periodically released update package:
> http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-warehouse/OTC-3625-14.html
>
> It's no wonder the GM dealer has to justifiably charge $69/hr.
> But seriously, should this equipment, probably made overseas,
> cost so much? A case could be made that the software, in
> particular, should be open-source or sold at nominal cost to
> customers and the trade. If only GM would not seemingly gouge
> would-be buyers of their stuff.
>
> That said, it is totally out of reach for me, and I presume 99%
> of you too. So, for the 99%, I ask,
>
> 1. What about the $1000 units on eBay? They're obviously
> replicas made in China. I've heard sometimes replicas of brand-
> name products are produced in the very same factories, after
> hours. Might there be unforeseen consequences associated with
> this kind of transaction?
> 2. Has anyone seen the software published on any warez binary
> group or Torrent?
>
> I hope this newgroup finds this post useful and merits a
> response.
>
> S.M.
>
>
>

There are other, effective, scan tools. Many PC based. Search around you
will find them. Most are (the good ones) about $500 or so for the basic
setup.

--
I'm never going to grow up.
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bob urz

External


Since: May 23, 2008
Posts: 23



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Solution to GM Tech II and updates $$$$$? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 12/23/2011 4:07 PM, hls wrote:
>
> "Student Mechanic" wrote in message
>
>> But seriously, should this equipment, probably made overseas,
>> cost so much?
>
> The keywords are "intellectual property". The instrument itself could
> probably
> be duplicated for a fraction of the cost you are asked to pay. But the
> technology that goes into making such an instrument and supplying the
> software is out of reach for most of us. And that is why they can charge,
> and get, such high prices.
Intellectual property has been taking a beating lately.
between apple trying to sue the world to stop android phones,
to people circumventing the DMCA to jail brake your cell or apple products.

it does not take brain surgery to make the scan tools. If the
manufacturer provided there protocols, it would be easy to clone them.
Now, they have to be reverse engineered. You should not have to have 10K
tool to reset the PATS or VIN on a Ford vehicle. Or read BCM's and such.
Used to be anti-locks were off limits too. That seems to be gradually
changing.
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