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Replacing Injection pump-Engine block gasket

 
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RF

External


Since: Apr 30, 2008
Posts: 49



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:10 pm
Post subject: Replacing Injection pump-Engine block gasket
Archived from groups: alt>auto>mercedes (more info?)

Mercedes 240D 123.123 619

Finally, I got around to replacing the gasket
between the injection pump and the motor block.
What a massive amount of work to replace such a
small gasket! It seems that cars just were not
designed with servicing in mind.

I could not find the Hylomar Blue and, based on a
discussion in this group in the past, I picked
Aviation Permatex from a lot of others. It is
supposed not to harden and that should make it
more effective in the long term. What surprised
me is the width of this gasket and the width of
the metal-metal contact. In places it is only
3/16". I would think that a wider bearing surface
would give much more resistance to leaks.

Of course I had to remove the complete injector
pump, after disconnecting the vacuum line (just
pulling it off the pump), the two control rods,
and the eight fuel connections:
1 Below the hand pump - the fuel inlet from the
tank via the small transparent filter.
2 Right beside No. 1 - again below the hand pump -
is an outlet that goes up to the top of the main
fuel filter.
3 This is the fuel outlet from the main filter
down to the front connection of the injection pump.
4 This one is the fuel return line that starts on
the engine side of the injection pump, goes to the
top of the main fuel filter and then attaches to
the return line that goes back to the tank.
5 The other four are the metal fuel lines to the
injectors.

Lastly, I removed the three nuts and washers that
held the front of the pump to a bracket at the
front of the engine, and another three that fixed
a small bracket to the rear of the pump and to
the engine block. The pump then was removed,
with the rear end down to keep the oil from
running out the front. I placed it level on a
bench top and noticed the oil coming out the
front. That was the area where the gasket was to
be located and, to prevent any more oil mess, I
turned the pump with that end down and drained
about two cups of oil. I sure didn't want it
dribbling out after I had the gasket and cement in
place.

The Permatex - Aviation comes in a 4 oz bottle
with very few instructions. Basically: "Apply to
thin film to each surface. Allow to air dry for a
few minutes before assembling." This was all that
applied to what I was doing. I went online and
came up with a PDF (
http://www.permatex.com/documents/tds/Automotive/80017.pdf)
that gave far more instructions. What about
people who can't go online? Undoubtedly everyone
has noticed that the instructions in English on
all containers are getting less all the time, to
make room for the Spanish traslation. Another cost
of the illegal migrations? When will we learn?

The gasketting went smoothly but, when I had
everything reassembled, I had trouble starting the
engine. I had released the air on Line 3 at the
main fuel filter and, after the bubbles stopped, I
tightened the nut and went on to Line 4 where it
attaches to the main fuel filter. While doing the
manual pumping I noticed a stream of fuel heading
downwards. I had oscillated the plunger up and
down by about 1/4" on each stroke and I guess that
it is worn or defective. I set up two plastic
containers, one under the main fuel filter, and
the other below the injection pump and then
vigorously repeated the venting. When I was
finished the container around the main fuel filter
had about a cup of fuel and the other one had
about three. I tried a few times to start the
engine and it came very close at the last try. I
stopped and the battery is now recharging. It
seems like I am near the end.

What a ghastly, messy, stinking - especially in a
hot garage - and primitive process this is. Why
not a liquid-air separator valve attached to the
tops of lines 3 and 4 with the air line heading
into the air intake and the liquid heading into
the return line to the tank? Now that would be
civilization! Smile Anyone heard of such a gizmo?

Is it possible to buy the manual pump plunger
itself, or the washer that presumably attaches to it?

I want now to stop all the drips from the engine
and I noticed that there was a small leakage at
the corner of the cylinder head gasket - the left
front side. I tightened the nuts to the correct
torque and I suspect that the cover may be a
little distorted. The gasket is only a few years
old. I am thinking of removing the cover and
gasket to clean them up and then use the Permatex
at that corner, or possibly the complete gasket.
This sealant seems to have an alcohol base so I
doubt it would bother the plastic of the gasket.

I won't be able to identify other leaks until I
get the car to a radiator shop to have the engine
box and the outside of the radiator very clean.
Anyone know what this typically costs?

 >> Stay informed about: Replacing Injection pump-Engine block gasket 
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Wan-ning Tan

External


Since: Aug 03, 2004
Posts: 89



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:23 am
Post subject: Re: Replacing Injection pump-Engine block gasket [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In my experience, MB does design with servicing in mind. Most jobs
require limited number (usually only one) of tools. For example, oil
change (13mm socket or wrench), brake, alternator, light bulbs (your
fingers, most time), etc. I had at least twice experiences on GM cars
where both metric and SAE are used on a same job.

Injection pump itself usually does not need service. Removal is even
harder, especially because it needs precise timing when putting back. I
assume that is why the engine does not start now. For later diesel
engines (OM60x series), adjusting timing requires special tool (probably
dealer only). I am not familiar with OM619. You may need to think
about sending to repair shop.


RF wrote:
> Mercedes 240D 123.123 619
>
> Finally, I got around to replacing the gasket between the injection pump
> and the motor block. What a massive amount of work to replace such a
> small gasket! It seems that cars just were not designed with servicing
> in mind.
>
> I could not find the Hylomar Blue and, based on a discussion in this
> group in the past, I picked Aviation Permatex from a lot of others. It
> is supposed not to harden and that should make it more effective in the
> long term. What surprised me is the width of this gasket and the width
> of the metal-metal contact. In places it is only 3/16". I would think
> that a wider bearing surface would give much more resistance to leaks.
>
> Of course I had to remove the complete injector pump, after
> disconnecting the vacuum line (just pulling it off the pump), the two
> control rods, and the eight fuel connections:
> 1 Below the hand pump - the fuel inlet from the tank via the small
> transparent filter.
> 2 Right beside No. 1 - again below the hand pump - is an outlet that
> goes up to the top of the main fuel filter.
> 3 This is the fuel outlet from the main filter down to the front
> connection of the injection pump.
> 4 This one is the fuel return line that starts on the engine side of
> the injection pump, goes to the top of the main fuel filter and then
> attaches to the return line that goes back to the tank.
> 5 The other four are the metal fuel lines to the injectors.
>
> Lastly, I removed the three nuts and washers that held the front of the
> pump to a bracket at the front of the engine, and another three that
> fixed a small bracket to the rear of the pump and to the engine block.
> The pump then was removed, with the rear end down to keep the oil from
> running out the front. I placed it level on a bench top and noticed
> the oil coming out the front. That was the area where the gasket was to
> be located and, to prevent any more oil mess, I turned the pump with
> that end down and drained about two cups of oil. I sure didn't want it
> dribbling out after I had the gasket and cement in place.
>
> The Permatex - Aviation comes in a 4 oz bottle with very few
> instructions. Basically: "Apply to thin film to each surface. Allow
> to air dry for a few minutes before assembling." This was all that
> applied to what I was doing. I went online and came up with a PDF (
> http://www.permatex.com/documents/tds/Automotive/80017.pdf) that gave
> far more instructions. What about people who can't go online?
> Undoubtedly everyone has noticed that the instructions in English on all
> containers are getting less all the time, to make room for the Spanish
> traslation. Another cost of the illegal migrations? When will we learn?
>
> The gasketting went smoothly but, when I had everything reassembled, I
> had trouble starting the engine. I had released the air on Line 3 at the
> main fuel filter and, after the bubbles stopped, I tightened the nut and
> went on to Line 4 where it attaches to the main fuel filter. While
> doing the manual pumping I noticed a stream of fuel heading downwards.
> I had oscillated the plunger up and down by about 1/4" on each stroke
> and I guess that it is worn or defective. I set up two plastic
> containers, one under the main fuel filter, and the other below the
> injection pump and then vigorously repeated the venting. When I was
> finished the container around the main fuel filter had about a cup of
> fuel and the other one had about three. I tried a few times to start
> the engine and it came very close at the last try. I stopped and the
> battery is now recharging. It seems like I am near the end.
>
> What a ghastly, messy, stinking - especially in a hot garage - and
> primitive process this is. Why not a liquid-air separator valve
> attached to the tops of lines 3 and 4 with the air line heading into the
> air intake and the liquid heading into the return line to the tank? Now
> that would be civilization! Smile Anyone heard of such a gizmo?
>
> Is it possible to buy the manual pump plunger itself, or the washer
> that presumably attaches to it?
>
> I want now to stop all the drips from the engine and I noticed that
> there was a small leakage at the corner of the cylinder head gasket -
> the left front side. I tightened the nuts to the correct torque and I
> suspect that the cover may be a little distorted. The gasket is only a
> few years old. I am thinking of removing the cover and gasket to clean
> them up and then use the Permatex at that corner, or possibly the
> complete gasket. This sealant seems to have an alcohol base so I doubt
> it would bother the plastic of the gasket.
>
> I won't be able to identify other leaks until I get the car to a
> radiator shop to have the engine box and the outside of the radiator
> very clean. Anyone know what this typically costs?

 >> Stay informed about: Replacing Injection pump-Engine block gasket 
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RF

External


Since: Apr 30, 2008
Posts: 49



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:23 am
Post subject: Re: Replacing Injection pump-Engine block gasket [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Thank you for your comment W.T.

When the pump was off the car I did not rotate the
shaft and neither did I rotate the engine
crankshaft, so why would the timing be different?
Does the black collar that fits
over the front of the pump shaft have anything to
do with the timing? It has internal gears that
mesh with gears on the end of the pump shaft. That
collar had no alignment markings that I could see.

The engine did run today a few times for a few
minutes but it was very rough. This may be due to
changed tuning settings - I SURE hope so.



Wan-ning Tan wrote:
> In my experience, MB does design with servicing in mind. Most jobs
> require limited number (usually only one) of tools. For example, oil
> change (13mm socket or wrench), brake, alternator, light bulbs (your
> fingers, most time), etc. I had at least twice experiences on GM cars
> where both metric and SAE are used on a same job.
>
> Injection pump itself usually does not need service. Removal is even
> harder, especially because it needs precise timing when putting back. I
> assume that is why the engine does not start now. For later diesel
> engines (OM60x series), adjusting timing requires special tool (probably
> dealer only). I am not familiar with OM619. You may need to think
> about sending to repair shop.
>
>
> RF wrote:
>> Mercedes 240D 123.123 619
>>
>> Finally, I got around to replacing the gasket between the injection
>> pump and the motor block. What a massive amount of work to replace
>> such a small gasket! It seems that cars just were not designed with
>> servicing in mind.
>>
>> I could not find the Hylomar Blue and, based on a discussion in this
>> group in the past, I picked Aviation Permatex from a lot of others. It
>> is supposed not to harden and that should make it more effective in
>> the long term. What surprised me is the width of this gasket and the
>> width of the metal-metal contact. In places it is only 3/16". I would
>> think that a wider bearing surface would give much more resistance to
>> leaks.
>>
>> Of course I had to remove the complete injector pump, after
>> disconnecting the vacuum line (just pulling it off the pump), the two
>> control rods, and the eight fuel connections:
>> 1 Below the hand pump - the fuel inlet from the tank via the small
>> transparent filter.
>> 2 Right beside No. 1 - again below the hand pump - is an outlet
>> that goes up to the top of the main fuel filter.
>> 3 This is the fuel outlet from the main filter down to the front
>> connection of the injection pump.
>> 4 This one is the fuel return line that starts on the engine side
>> of the injection pump, goes to the top of the main fuel filter and
>> then attaches to the return line that goes back to the tank.
>> 5 The other four are the metal fuel lines to the injectors.
>>
>> Lastly, I removed the three nuts and washers that held the front of
>> the pump to a bracket at the front of the engine, and another three
>> that fixed a small bracket to the rear of the pump and to the engine
>> block. The pump then was removed, with the rear end down to keep the
>> oil from running out the front. I placed it level on a bench top and
>> noticed the oil coming out the front. That was the area where the
>> gasket was to be located and, to prevent any more oil mess, I turned
>> the pump with that end down and drained about two cups of oil. I sure
>> didn't want it dribbling out after I had the gasket and cement in place.
>>
>> The Permatex - Aviation comes in a 4 oz bottle with very few
>> instructions. Basically: "Apply to thin film to each surface. Allow
>> to air dry for a few minutes before assembling." This was all that
>> applied to what I was doing. I went online and came up with a PDF (
>> http://www.permatex.com/documents/tds/Automotive/80017.pdf) that gave
>> far more instructions. What about people who can't go online?
>> Undoubtedly everyone has noticed that the instructions in English on
>> all containers are getting less all the time, to make room for the
>> Spanish traslation. Another cost of the illegal migrations? When will
>> we learn?
>>
>> The gasketting went smoothly but, when I had everything reassembled, I
>> had trouble starting the engine. I had released the air on Line 3 at
>> the main fuel filter and, after the bubbles stopped, I tightened the
>> nut and went on to Line 4 where it attaches to the main fuel filter.
>> While doing the manual pumping I noticed a stream of fuel heading
>> downwards. I had oscillated the plunger up and down by about 1/4" on
>> each stroke and I guess that it is worn or defective. I set up two
>> plastic containers, one under the main fuel filter, and the other
>> below the injection pump and then vigorously repeated the venting.
>> When I was finished the container around the main fuel filter had
>> about a cup of fuel and the other one had about three. I tried a few
>> times to start the engine and it came very close at the last try. I
>> stopped and the battery is now recharging. It seems like I am near
>> the end.
>>
>> What a ghastly, messy, stinking - especially in a hot garage - and
>> primitive process this is. Why not a liquid-air separator valve
>> attached to the tops of lines 3 and 4 with the air line heading into
>> the air intake and the liquid heading into the return line to the
>> tank? Now that would be civilization! Smile Anyone heard of such a
>> gizmo?
>>
>> Is it possible to buy the manual pump plunger itself, or the washer
>> that presumably attaches to it?
>>
>> I want now to stop all the drips from the engine and I noticed that
>> there was a small leakage at the corner of the cylinder head gasket -
>> the left front side. I tightened the nuts to the correct torque and I
>> suspect that the cover may be a little distorted. The gasket is only
>> a few years old. I am thinking of removing the cover and gasket to
>> clean them up and then use the Permatex at that corner, or possibly
>> the complete gasket. This sealant seems to have an alcohol base so I
>> doubt it would bother the plastic of the gasket.
>>
>> I won't be able to identify other leaks until I get the car to a
>> radiator shop to have the engine box and the outside of the radiator
>> very clean. Anyone know what this typically costs?
 >> Stay informed about: Replacing Injection pump-Engine block gasket 
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Cordy

External


Since: Jun 10, 2008
Posts: 7



(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:01 am
Post subject: Re: Replacing Injection pump-Engine block gasket [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

RF ha scritto:
> When the pump was off the car I did not rotate the shaft and neither did
> I rotate the engine crankshaft, so why would the timing be different?
> Does the black collar that fits
> over the front of the pump shaft have anything to do with the timing? It
> has internal gears that mesh with gears on the end of the pump shaft.
> That collar had no alignment markings that I could see.
>
> The engine did run today a few times for a few minutes but it was very
> rough. This may be due to changed tuning settings - I SURE hope so.
>

Sure you need to tune up injection timing after disassembling it. You
might want to check the procedure, for example 'buying' an Haynes manual.
 >> Stay informed about: Replacing Injection pump-Engine block gasket 
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RF

External


Since: Apr 30, 2008
Posts: 49



(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:01 am
Post subject: Re: Replacing Injection pump-Engine block gasket [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Cordy wrote:
> RF ha scritto:
>> When the pump was off the car I did not rotate the shaft and neither
>> did I rotate the engine crankshaft, so why would the timing be
>> different? Does the black collar that fits
>> over the front of the pump shaft have anything to do with the timing?
>> It has internal gears that mesh with gears on the end of the pump
>> shaft. That collar had no alignment markings that I could see.
>>
>> The engine did run today a few times for a few minutes but it was very
>> rough. This may be due to changed tuning settings - I SURE hope so.
>>
>
> Sure you need to tune up injection timing after disassembling it. You
> might want to check the procedure, for example 'buying' an Haynes manual.


Thanks Cordy for the comment.

The MBZ manuals indicate that, when the injection
pump needs to be REPLACED, the
crankshaft should be set at a particular angle and
the front of the pump has a few moving components
that need to be aligned with a particular mark on
the pump body.
I can find no description that suggests tuning
after replacing the gasket. Now the manual is a
bit of a mess, with no index, and covering a large
number of models so I might have missed it. If
anyone knows where it is, I'd appreciate the
information.

PS I didn't disassemble the pump. I just removed
the various external connections, replaced the
gasket and did not disturb the internal components.
 >> Stay informed about: Replacing Injection pump-Engine block gasket 
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Cordy

External


Since: Jun 10, 2008
Posts: 7



(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Replacing Injection pump-Engine block gasket [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

RF ha scritto:
> Cordy wrote:
>> RF ha scritto:
>>> When the pump was off the car I did not rotate the shaft and neither
>>> did I rotate the engine crankshaft, so why would the timing be
>>> different? Does the black collar that fits
>>> over the front of the pump shaft have anything to do with the timing?
>>> It has internal gears that mesh with gears on the end of the pump
>>> shaft. That collar had no alignment markings that I could see.
>>>
>>> The engine did run today a few times for a few minutes but it was
>>> very rough. This may be due to changed tuning settings - I SURE hope
>>> so.
>>>
>>
>> Sure you need to tune up injection timing after disassembling it. You
>> might want to check the procedure, for example 'buying' an Haynes manual.
>
>
> Thanks Cordy for the comment.
>
> The MBZ manuals indicate that, when the injection pump needs to be
> REPLACED, the
> crankshaft should be set at a particular angle and the front of the pump
> has a few moving components that need to be aligned with a particular
> mark on the pump body.
> I can find no description that suggests tuning after replacing the
> gasket. Now the manual is a bit of a mess, with no index, and covering a
> large number of models so I might have missed it. If anyone knows where
> it is, I'd appreciate the information.
>
> PS I didn't disassemble the pump. I just removed the various external
> connections, replaced the gasket and did not disturb the internal
> components.

Mmmm... did you correctly purge air from ducts going from pump to
nozzles (diesel injectors...)? Even a small bubble under pressure
creates problems...
 >> Stay informed about: Replacing Injection pump-Engine block gasket 
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RF

External


Since: Apr 30, 2008
Posts: 49



(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Replacing Injection pump-Engine block gasket [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Cordy wrote:
> RF ha scritto:
>> Cordy wrote:
>>> RF ha scritto:
>>>> When the pump was off the car I did not rotate the shaft and neither
>>>> did I rotate the engine crankshaft, so why would the timing be
>>>> different? Does the black collar that fits
>>>> over the front of the pump shaft have anything to do with the
>>>> timing? It has internal gears that mesh with gears on the end of the
>>>> pump shaft. That collar had no alignment markings that I could see.
>>>>
>>>> The engine did run today a few times for a few minutes but it was
>>>> very rough. This may be due to changed tuning settings - I SURE
>>>> hope so.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sure you need to tune up injection timing after disassembling it. You
>>> might want to check the procedure, for example 'buying' an Haynes
>>> manual.
>>
>>
>> Thanks Cordy for the comment.
>>
>> The MBZ manuals indicate that, when the injection pump needs to be
>> REPLACED, the
>> crankshaft should be set at a particular angle and the front of the
>> pump has a few moving components that need to be aligned with a
>> particular mark on the pump body.
>> I can find no description that suggests tuning after replacing the
>> gasket. Now the manual is a bit of a mess, with no index, and covering
>> a large number of models so I might have missed it. If anyone knows
>> where it is, I'd appreciate the information.
>>
>> PS I didn't disassemble the pump. I just removed the various external
>> connections, replaced the gasket and did not disturb the internal
>> components.
>
> Mmmm... did you correctly purge air from ducts going from pump to
> nozzles (diesel injectors...)? Even a small bubble under pressure
> creates problems...

All one can do in that situation is to keep
pumping until the bubbles stop
coming and there is a steady fluid flow. That's
what I did at the two locations.
It took me much longer than at previous times and
it was probably because of
the pump washer needing a replacement.

I think small bubbles would be pushed along the
line and eventually into the
cylinder once the engine starts revving. I'll have
another try later today. One little
problem I have is the engine idling speed knob. It
is a piece of plastic with a hole in
it that is pushed onto a spike sticking out of the
dash. The hole in the plastic is chewed up. I
think I'll just put a blob of glue into it and
that should fix it for now. Back soon and thanks
for the "conversation." Smile
 >> Stay informed about: Replacing Injection pump-Engine block gasket 
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RF

External


Since: Apr 30, 2008
Posts: 49



(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Replacing Injection pump-Engine block gasket [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

RF wrote:
> Cordy wrote:
>> RF ha scritto:
>>> Cordy wrote:
>>>> RF ha scritto:
>>>>> When the pump was off the car I did not rotate the shaft and
>>>>> neither did I rotate the engine crankshaft, so why would the timing
>>>>> be different? Does the black collar that fits
>>>>> over the front of the pump shaft have anything to do with the
>>>>> timing? It has internal gears that mesh with gears on the end of
>>>>> the pump shaft. That collar had no alignment markings that I could
>>>>> see.
>>>>>
>>>>> The engine did run today a few times for a few minutes but it was
>>>>> very rough. This may be due to changed tuning settings - I SURE
>>>>> hope so.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sure you need to tune up injection timing after disassembling it.
>>>> You might want to check the procedure, for example 'buying' an
>>>> Haynes manual.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Cordy for the comment.
>>>
>>> The MBZ manuals indicate that, when the injection pump needs to be
>>> REPLACED, the
>>> crankshaft should be set at a particular angle and the front of the
>>> pump has a few moving components that need to be aligned with a
>>> particular mark on the pump body.
>>> I can find no description that suggests tuning after replacing the
>>> gasket. Now the manual is a bit of a mess, with no index, and
>>> covering a large number of models so I might have missed it. If
>>> anyone knows where it is, I'd appreciate the information.
>>>
>>> PS I didn't disassemble the pump. I just removed the various external
>>> connections, replaced the gasket and did not disturb the internal
>>> components.
>>
>> Mmmm... did you correctly purge air from ducts going from pump to
>> nozzles (diesel injectors...)? Even a small bubble under pressure
>> creates problems...
>
> All one can do in that situation is to keep pumping until the bubbles stop
> coming and there is a steady fluid flow. That's what I did at the two
> locations.
> It took me much longer than at previous times and it was probably
> because of
> the pump washer needing a replacement.
>
> I think small bubbles would be pushed along the line and eventually into
> the
> cylinder once the engine starts revving. I'll have another try later
> today. One little
> problem I have is the engine idling speed knob. It is a piece of plastic
> with a hole in
> it that is pushed onto a spike sticking out of the dash. The hole in the
> plastic is chewed up. I think I'll just put a blob of glue into it and
> that should fix it for now. Back soon and thanks for the
> "conversation." Smile

Success, at last Smile I finally got the engine
idling adjustment made and
drove around the block.
 >> Stay informed about: Replacing Injection pump-Engine block gasket 
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