Manual vs. steptronic

"kpb" <kennykabuki.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1194540403.590878.218220@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>I was thinking I'd get a manual, for the fun of shifting. Haven't
> driven one in years though.
>
> The BMW manual was very smooth, but the gear shifter is very "tight",
> little confusing to know which gear you're in. Plus the handbrake is
> in kind of a funny position to use on hill starts. Partly that and
> partly as I haven't driven one in years I was a little shaky on the
> BMW manual I test drove.
>
> The steptronic though. Wow, that is just great. Shift up, shift
> down, shifts instantly and gives you a readout as to what gear you're
> in.
>
> So what is the upside to a manual if there is steptronic? I guess you
> can dictate how fast to let the clutch out...I didn't get to that
> point as I was unfamiliar with the set point. It's so smooth I
> couldn't really feel it.
>
> I would think if you're tired of shifting a lot in traffic, the
> steptronic is the way to go.
>
> What sayest thou? I am into sporty driving, but I"m not going to the
> track or anything.

I have an X3 with the auto and it has that option.
I used to drive manuals and find that in New York City traffic, the auto
makes more sense. However, Check the one are planning to buy, I found that
the auto has two modes. One allows the transmission to shift into neutral
when you are not on the gas and the other keeps it firmly locked in gear.
(By moving the shifter left in to the manual position but not moving forward
or backward - you are "sport" mode.)
This sport-mode is good in the city as you have immediate power when you
step on the gas. The X3 will jump when you stand on it. Personally, it
depends on the car and your driving environment.
My humble opinion is to get a manual if you are
A) getting a 2 seat sports car
B) primarily driving in low-traffic areas

Get the auto if you spend a lot of time sitting in traffic


Someone mentioned security but if you really want to keep the car, get the
lo-jack option. they recover 95% of stolen cars and that enough gives me
piece of mind. (Plus, they catch the thief in the car.)

Anyway, that's my 2 cents..
Squat
 >> Stay informed about: Manual vs. steptronic 

In article <1194540403.590878.218220 RemoveThis @e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
kpb <kennykabuki RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> I was thinking I'd get a manual, for the fun of shifting. Haven't
> driven one in years though.

> The BMW manual was very smooth, but the gear shifter is very "tight",
> little confusing to know which gear you're in. Plus the handbrake is
> in kind of a funny position to use on hill starts. Partly that and
> partly as I haven't driven one in years I was a little shaky on the
> BMW manual I test drove.

> The steptronic though. Wow, that is just great. Shift up, shift
> down, shifts instantly and gives you a readout as to what gear you're
> in.

> So what is the upside to a manual if there is steptronic? I guess you
> can dictate how fast to let the clutch out...I didn't get to that
> point as I was unfamiliar with the set point. It's so smooth I
> couldn't really feel it.

> I would think if you're tired of shifting a lot in traffic, the
> steptronic is the way to go.

> What sayest thou? I am into sporty driving, but I"m not going to the
> track or anything.

I've had a Steptronic for many years - soon after they first appeared. And
after the 'fun' of playing with it you soon forget about it and just let
the auto get on with it.

The difference with a true manual box and clutch is it requires skill to
use properly. And that can be fun if you like such things. The fuel
consumption on a well driven manual will be slightly better in stop start
conditions as there's no torque converter to 'waste' power.

--
*The beatings will continue until morale improves *

Dave Plowman dave RemoveThis @davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
 >> Stay informed about: Manual vs. steptronic 

Dave, my bro is looking at a '02 325xiT with steptronic... 115k miles....
you said you have a steptronic... what is your opinion of durability? is it
safe to say it is still good, or ??
The guys on a particular site named the tranny as the most likely failure if
he buys it.
I suspect the owner has NOT changed the tranny fluid in the 115k miles.
Is doing a "smell and visual" test on the tranny fluid any indicator, or
could there be deeper things ?
thanks

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave.TakeThisOut@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4f3ea26016dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <1194540403.590878.218220.TakeThisOut@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
> kpb <kennykabuki.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I was thinking I'd get a manual, for the fun of shifting. Haven't
>> driven one in years though.
>
>> The BMW manual was very smooth, but the gear shifter is very "tight",
>> little confusing to know which gear you're in. Plus the handbrake is
>> in kind of a funny position to use on hill starts. Partly that and
>> partly as I haven't driven one in years I was a little shaky on the
>> BMW manual I test drove.
>
>> The steptronic though. Wow, that is just great. Shift up, shift
>> down, shifts instantly and gives you a readout as to what gear you're
>> in.
>
>> So what is the upside to a manual if there is steptronic? I guess you
>> can dictate how fast to let the clutch out...I didn't get to that
>> point as I was unfamiliar with the set point. It's so smooth I
>> couldn't really feel it.
>
>> I would think if you're tired of shifting a lot in traffic, the
>> steptronic is the way to go.
>
>> What sayest thou? I am into sporty driving, but I"m not going to the
>> track or anything.
>
> I've had a Steptronic for many years - soon after they first appeared. And
> after the 'fun' of playing with it you soon forget about it and just let
> the auto get on with it.
>
> The difference with a true manual box and clutch is it requires skill to
> use properly. And that can be fun if you like such things. The fuel
> consumption on a well driven manual will be slightly better in stop start
> conditions as there's no torque converter to 'waste' power.
>
> --
> *The beatings will continue until morale improves *
>
> Dave Plowman dave.TakeThisOut@davenoise.co.uk London SW
> To e-mail, change noise into sound.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 >> Stay informed about: Manual vs. steptronic 

In article <47333f60$0$26448$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>,
Bubbles <Bubbbbbbles RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> durability alone - manual.
> Steps have "issues" that a manual will NEVER encounter

Manual boxes have clutches that poor driving can wear out. Synchromesh
cones too.

In the UK most town delivery vans are autos - they are more reliable than
manauals, and less open to abuse.

--
*It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you.

Dave Plowman dave RemoveThis @davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
 >> Stay informed about: Manual vs. steptronic 

Dave Plowman (News) <dave DeleteThis @davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <47333f60$0$26448$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>,
> Bubbles <Bubbbbbbles DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>> durability alone - manual.
>> Steps have "issues" that a manual will NEVER encounter
>
>Manual boxes have clutches that poor driving can wear out. Synchromesh
>cones too.

Yes, but it's a whole lot easier to rebuild that manual (even the six-speed)
than the simplest auto.

>In the UK most town delivery vans are autos - they are more reliable than
>manauals, and less open to abuse.

A major advantage of the manual in the US is that kids don't know how to
drive them, and your chances of having the car stolen are greatly reduced.
The disadvantage comes when the valet parking guys don't know how to drive
them....
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
 >> Stay informed about: Manual vs. steptronic 

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave.TakeThisOut@davenoise.co.uk> wrote
> Bubbles <Bubbbbbbles.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> durability alone - manual.
>> Steps have "issues" that a manual will NEVER encounter
>
> Manual boxes have clutches that poor driving can wear out. Synchromesh
> cones too.

Considering that our '91 525i is nearing 200K miles, and still has it's
*ORIGINAL* clutch (and tranny of course) and most autos from
that era were lucky to reach 125K, I'd always want a manual.

> In the UK most town delivery vans are autos - they are more reliable than
> manauals, and less open to abuse.

There's a *LOT* of difference between the autos in commercial
vehicles and cars. The old C6 tranny in Ford pickups would go
500K. No car auto would be likely to go that far - in fact most
go by 125K-150K.

FloydR
 >> Stay informed about: Manual vs. steptronic 

In article <fgvld8$knc$1@panix2.panix.com>,
Scott Dorsey <kludge.RemoveThis@panix.com> wrote:
> >Manual boxes have clutches that poor driving can wear out. Synchromesh
> >cones too.

> Yes, but it's a whole lot easier to rebuild that manual (even the
> six-speed) than the simplest auto.

That really isn't so. To rebuild a broken manual properly involves
changing near all the internals. You can't mix and match part worn gears
and get a quiet as new box. When an auto breaks it is usually consumable
parts - clutches and seals etc that go. I've done both and a basic auto is
just as easy and likely to be more successful.

--
*Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are (usually) unnecessary *

Dave Plowman dave.RemoveThis@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
 >> Stay informed about: Manual vs. steptronic 

"kpb" <kennykabuki DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1194540403.590878.218220@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>I was thinking I'd get a manual, for the fun of shifting. Haven't
> driven one in years though.
>
> The BMW manual was very smooth, but the gear shifter is very "tight",
> little confusing to know which gear you're in. Plus the handbrake is
> in kind of a funny position to use on hill starts. Partly that and
> partly as I haven't driven one in years I was a little shaky on the
> BMW manual I test drove.
>
> The steptronic though. Wow, that is just great. Shift up, shift
> down, shifts instantly and gives you a readout as to what gear you're
> in.
>
> So what is the upside to a manual if there is steptronic? I guess you
> can dictate how fast to let the clutch out...I didn't get to that
> point as I was unfamiliar with the set point. It's so smooth I
> couldn't really feel it.
>
> I would think if you're tired of shifting a lot in traffic, the
> steptronic is the way to go.
>
> What sayest thou? I am into sporty driving, but I"m not going to the
> track or anything.

I have a manual E30 325 and an auto E46 330. Both are good but if I had to
chose it would be the manual. The auto is better (smoother) for the
passenger. Interestingly Alpina only offered only auto for the E46. The auto
boxes are very good but if you really enjoy driving for maximum involvement
and control go for the manual.
 >> Stay informed about: Manual vs. steptronic 

In article <fgvld8$knc$1@panix2.panix.com>,
Scott Dorsey <kludge.RemoveThis@panix.com> wrote:
> >In the UK most town delivery vans are autos - they are more reliable
> >than manauals, and less open to abuse.

> A major advantage of the manual in the US is that kids don't know how to
> drive them, and your chances of having the car stolen are greatly
> reduced.

In the UK most still learn to drive on manuals. The sort of cars most
chavs aspire to are manual. But as regards stealing, they won't get very
far with a modern BMW unless they have the keys.

> The disadvantage comes when the valet parking guys don't know
> how to drive them....

Valet parking is virtually unknown in the UK. Apart from perhaps some very
expensive venues.

--
*Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject

Dave Plowman dave.RemoveThis@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
 >> Stay informed about: Manual vs. steptronic 

I've seen quite a few "complaints" about these new "automated manuals"

1) You loose gear after about 10mins in a queue - Just sense really - you
are clutch slipping and should be in neutral!

2)reversing slowly up into a parking space /problems with too many/too few
revs - for this I've not had or seen a reasonable answer
 >> Stay informed about: Manual vs. steptronic 

In article <5EJYi.37587$9Y3.29664@newsfe1-win.ntli.net>,
Tommy <Tommy RemoveThis @mall.colm> wrote:
> I've seen quite a few "complaints" about these new "automated manuals"

> 1) You loose gear after about 10mins in a queue - Just sense really -
> you are clutch slipping and should be in neutral!

> 2)reversing slowly up into a parking space /problems with too many/too
> few revs - for this I've not had or seen a reasonable answer

The Steptronic is a conventional auto - but with slightly more
sophisticated manual over-ride of the gear selection.

You're thinking of an SMG or DSG box.

--
*Beware - animal lover - brakes for pussy*

Dave Plowman dave RemoveThis @davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
 >> Stay informed about: Manual vs. steptronic 

"kpb" <kennykabuki DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1194540403.590878.218220@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>I was thinking I'd get a manual, for the fun of shifting. Haven't
> driven one in years though.
>
> The BMW manual was very smooth, but the gear shifter is very "tight",
> little confusing to know which gear you're in. Plus the handbrake is
> in kind of a funny position to use on hill starts. Partly that and
> partly as I haven't driven one in years I was a little shaky on the
> BMW manual I test drove.
>
> The steptronic though. Wow, that is just great. Shift up, shift
> down, shifts instantly and gives you a readout as to what gear you're
> in.
>
> So what is the upside to a manual if there is steptronic? I guess you
> can dictate how fast to let the clutch out...I didn't get to that
> point as I was unfamiliar with the set point. It's so smooth I
> couldn't really feel it.
>
> I would think if you're tired of shifting a lot in traffic, the
> steptronic is the way to go.
>
> What sayest thou? I am into sporty driving, but I"m not going to the
> track or anything.
>

If you are getting a BMW with a small engine and live out of town then get a
manual.

If you are getting a BMW with a big engine (or a diesel) and live in town
then get an auto.


Married to a small engine (e,g, 320i) a manual is a delight and an auto
would inflict unacceptable losses on performance and economy.

Married to a big engine a manual is heavy and cumbersome (especially in
traffic), moreover a modern auto will actually produce better performance
and economy than most drivers and be far less likely to break the engine or
the transmission.

I am >2m tall and back in the 80's I had two manual Rover 3500SD1's followed
by two 735i's mainly used for long distance driving. Compared with the
'cooking' auto's of the time (3 gears in the Rovers and four in BMW) their
five speed manuals were a far better drive and gave better performance and
economy. They all had heavy clutches, which needed work in town - fine for
me at the time, but unlikely to be much fun for an older and / or slightly
built (e.g female) driver.

You haven't been able to get a manual 7 series for years and years (two
options remain in the 6 series though) and the tectonic boxes are now
arguably better than the manuals for all but the most over enthusiastic
driver.
 >> Stay informed about: Manual vs. steptronic 

In article <4733661d$0$26464$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>,
Bubbles <Bubbbbbbles.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dave, my bro is looking at a '02 325xiT with steptronic... 115k
> miles.... you said you have a steptronic... what is your opinion of
> durability?

I'd say the Steptronic makes no difference to the durability of the box.

> is it safe to say it is still good, or ?? The guys on a
> particular site named the tranny as the most likely failure if he buys
> it.

Dunno. My last car with the same box was ok at 140,000. This one is not
yet at 90,000.

> I suspect the owner has NOT changed the tranny fluid in the 115k
> miles. Is doing a "smell and visual" test on the tranny fluid any
> indicator, or could there be deeper things ?

Difficult to do a test on the fluid - there's no dipstick.

I have heard no firm evidence about the life of a 4HP18/20. They don't
fetch much on Ebay here in the UK so I'd guess they are no better or worse
than any auto.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you *

Dave Plowman dave.TakeThisOut@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
 >> Stay informed about: Manual vs. steptronic