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Next: GM 3.4 DOHC power tweaks/maintenance tips
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External
Since: Jun 29, 2005
Posts: 578
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:15 am
Post subject: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner
Archived from groups: alt>autos>toyota, others (more info?)
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Wednesday, as I was getting ready to leave town, a lady flagged me
down in the parking lot and asked me to help with Her Toyota. It was a
late model Camry and it wouldn't start. The owner though the problem
was a dead battery and already had the jumper cables out.
Unfortunately the car was in between two parked cars and I couldn't
get my truck close enough to jump them. Based on my past problem with
Japanese starters I was not sure the battery was dead at all. I had
the owner turn on the headlights and try to start the car. There was a
soft click, but nothing happened, and the headlights did not dim at
all. This reinforced my suspicion that the problem was not a dead
battery. I checked the starter fuse and it was fine. Before I could
take the next step, the owner of the car next to the dead car appeared
and offered to jump the car. I didn't think this would help, but
figured it wouldn't hurt either. As I expected, jumping the car made
no difference. At this point, I applied my sole piece of Toyota
expertise - I had the car owner turn the key to start, I got out my 1
inch wrench, and whacked the starter solenoid with it. The car
immediately started. The crowd that had gathered was in awe (well
amazed a tiny bit at least). My last piece of advice to the car owner
was to get the starter serviced. I doubt she could take the starter
apart, but if it was my car, I would have taken the solenoid off the
car, made sure the bore was cleaned and checked the contacts for wear.
I have no idea why it is the Japanese (or at least Nipondenso) can't
figure out how to make a decent starter solenoid. The last Toyota I
owned had exactly the same problem. So have my two Kubota tractors. At
least for the tractors, replacement solenoids were readily available
(a sure sign they are a problem part) and easy to replace, but they
were expensive.
Ed |
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External
Since: Jan 03, 2005
Posts: 209
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>autos>toyota (more info?)
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External
Since: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: 33
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>autos>toyota, others (more info?)
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"C. E. White" ...
> Wednesday, as I was getting ready to leave town, a lady flagged me down in
> the parking lot and asked me to help with Her Toyota. It was a late model
> Camry and it wouldn't start. The owner though the problem was a dead
> battery and already had the jumper cables out. Unfortunately the car was
> in between two parked cars and I couldn't get my truck close enough to
> jump them. Based on my past problem with Japanese starters I was not sure
> the battery was dead at all. I had the owner turn on the headlights and
> try to start the car. There was a soft click, but nothing happened, and
> the headlights did not dim at all. This reinforced my suspicion that the
> problem was not a dead battery. I checked the starter fuse and it was
> fine. Before I could take the next step, the owner of the car next to the
> dead car appeared and offered to jump the car. I didn't think this would
> help, but figured it wouldn't hurt either. As I expected, jumping the car
> made no difference. At this point, I applied my sole piece of Toyota
> expertise - I had the car owner turn the key to start, I got out my 1 inch
> wrench, and whacked the starter solenoid with it. The car immediately
> started. The crowd that had gathered was in awe (well amazed a tiny bit at
> least). My last piece of advice to the car owner was to get the starter
> serviced. I doubt she could take the starter apart, but if it was my car,
> I would have taken the solenoid off the car, made sure the bore was
> cleaned and checked the contacts for wear. I have no idea why it is the
> Japanese (or at least Nipondenso) can't figure out how to make a decent
> starter solenoid. The last Toyota I owned had exactly the same problem. So
> have my two Kubota tractors. At least for the tractors, replacement
> solenoids were readily available (a sure sign they are a problem part) and
> easy to replace, but they were expensive.
>
> Ed
>
As I've always said; they're not perfect.
Natalie >> Stay informed about: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner |
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Since: Feb 25, 2007
Posts: 148
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:06:36 -0400, "WickeddollŽ"
<wickeddollNoEffingSpam1958.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> At this point, I applied my sole piece of Toyota
>> expertise - I had the car owner turn the key to start, I got out my 1 inch
>> wrench, and whacked the starter solenoid with it. The car immediately
>> started. The crowd that had gathered was in awe (well amazed a tiny bit at
>> least). My last piece of advice to the car owner was to get the starter
>> serviced. I doubt she could take the starter apart, but if it was my car,
>> I would have taken the solenoid off the car, made sure the bore was
>> cleaned and checked the contacts for wear. I have no idea why it is the
>> Japanese (or at least Nipondenso) can't figure out how to make a decent
>> starter solenoid. The last Toyota I owned had exactly the same problem.
I had the same problem with an '88 Ford E350 14' Hi-cube (351W V  ,
and a 1986 Chevy C10 Van (250 straight 6). They were easy to whack,
as you could simply pop off the doghouse, and actually reach it from
the driver's seat with a wrecking pry bar. Maybe all cars should
have a trap door over the starter. <G>
The last Toyota I junked, a 22R powered '85 pickup with 311,000 brutal
miles, had the original starter, so I guess it all evens out...
I had a Lycoming starter fail to disengage the ring gear on the
airplane last summer, and $1375 later, I was off! I had to pay
whatever the guy at the field where it broke wanted, as airplanes are
difficult to tow, and mechanics are expensive to fly in. The price
turned out be comparable to what my regular mechanic would have
charged. I guess we should all be glad that Ford, Chevy, Toyota, and
Kubota don't get starters from the same source as Lycoming. <G> >> Stay informed about: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner |
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Since: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: 33
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" <DwightSchrute.DeleteThis@DunderMifflin.com> wrote in message
news:3o4b831gfe1sjco8mi6pan1jcs8lni744t@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:06:36 -0400, "WickeddollŽ"
> <wickeddollNoEffingSpam1958.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> At this point, I applied my sole piece of Toyota
>>> expertise - I had the car owner turn the key to start, I got out my 1
>>> inch
>>> wrench, and whacked the starter solenoid with it. The car immediately
>>> started. The crowd that had gathered was in awe (well amazed a tiny bit
>>> at
>>> least). My last piece of advice to the car owner was to get the starter
>>> serviced. I doubt she could take the starter apart, but if it was my
>>> car,
>>> I would have taken the solenoid off the car, made sure the bore was
>>> cleaned and checked the contacts for wear. I have no idea why it is the
>>> Japanese (or at least Nipondenso) can't figure out how to make a decent
>>> starter solenoid. The last Toyota I owned had exactly the same problem.
>
> I had the same problem with an '88 Ford E350 14' Hi-cube (351W V,
> and a 1986 Chevy C10 Van (250 straight 6). They were easy to whack,
> as you could simply pop off the doghouse, and actually reach it from
> the driver's seat with a wrecking pry bar. Maybe all cars should
> have a trap door over the starter. <G>
>
> The last Toyota I junked, a 22R powered '85 pickup with 311,000 brutal
> miles, had the original starter, so I guess it all evens out...
We've never had starter problems. Our '87 Corolla FX 16 had terrible
exhaust (a well-known Toyota problem at the time), but our current 2000 Echo
and 2005 Scion seem to be quite superior in that regard.
>
> I had a Lycoming starter fail to disengage the ring gear on the
> airplane last summer, and $1375 later, I was off! I had to pay
> whatever the guy at the field where it broke wanted, as airplanes are
> difficult to tow, and mechanics are expensive to fly in. The price
> turned out be comparable to what my regular mechanic would have
> charged. I guess we should all be glad that Ford, Chevy, Toyota, and
> Kubota don't get starters from the same source as Lycoming. <G>
You're talking to a woman with a profound flying phobia, so that story just
gave me a start! (no sedative, no flying for me!)
But regarding the cost - which is better, the chunk of cash, or dead you?
Natalie >> Stay informed about: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner |
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Since: Jul 04, 2004
Posts: 316
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" <exactly the same problem.
>
> I had a Lycoming starter fail to disengage the ring gear on the
> airplane last summer, and $1375 later, I was off! I had to pay
> whatever the guy at the field where it broke wanted, as airplanes are
> difficult to tow, and mechanics are expensive to fly in. The price
> turned out be comparable to what my regular mechanic would have
> charged. I guess we should all be glad that Ford, Chevy, Toyota, and
> Kubota don't get starters from the same source as Lycoming. <G>
Wasn't it possible to disengage the starter by rocking the engine by the
prop? Was it basically the spring that retracts the gear from the start
position which broke?
I guess the reason for the high cost is that the part has the term "aero" in
front of it, just as any parts for a boat, with "marine" in the name of them
automatically cost about four or five times what they should otherwise.
(and now we can add the term "medical" to some simple device and it
increases the cost astronomically!) >> Stay informed about: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner |
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External
Since: Feb 25, 2007
Posts: 148
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 19:47:38 -0400, "WickeddollŽ"
<wickeddollNoEffingSpam1958 DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>But regarding the cost - which is better, the chunk of cash, or dead you?
I would have been fine, the starter motor just would have completely
burned up during the flight. <G>
Oddly enough, starters that get stuck engaged are common enough for
some planes to have a "starter engaged" warning light. The only
other symptom, besides the billowing smoke that comes later, is a
faint gear whine which is barely audible over the engine. Fortunately,
I have a good noise reducing headset, so I could actually hear the
abnormal sound. The ring gear is on the front of the engine, on the
back of the prop hub, so the whole mechanism gets exposed to lots of
high speed weather, making things crusty at times.
The starter is usually just underneath one of the cowl intake holes,
and the alternator is under the other. You're supposed to look in the
holes during the pre-flight inspection and check the alternator belt
tension with your fingers. The ring gear is on the front of the
engine, on the back of the prop hub, so the whole mechanism gets
exposed to lots of high speed weather, making things crusty at times. >> Stay informed about: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner |
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External
Since: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: 33
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" ...
"WickeddollŽ"
>>
>>But regarding the cost - which is better, the chunk of cash, or dead you?
>
> I would have been fine, the starter motor just would have completely
> burned up during the flight. <G>
O_o
>
> Oddly enough, starters that get stuck engaged are common enough for
> some planes to have a "starter engaged" warning light. The only
> other symptom, besides the billowing smoke that comes later, is a
> faint gear whine which is barely audible over the engine. Fortunately,
> I have a good noise reducing headset, so I could actually hear the
> abnormal sound. The ring gear is on the front of the engine, on the
> back of the prop hub, so the whole mechanism gets exposed to lots of
> high speed weather, making things crusty at times.
SMOKE?! Gawd.
>
> The starter is usually just underneath one of the cowl intake holes,
> and the alternator is under the other. You're supposed to look in the
> holes during the pre-flight inspection and check the alternator belt
> tension with your fingers. The ring gear is on the front of the
> engine, on the back of the prop hub, so the whole mechanism gets
> exposed to lots of high speed weather, making things crusty at times.
That's it. I'm taking the train to Europe.
Natalie >> Stay informed about: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner |
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External
Since: Jun 04, 2004
Posts: 1198
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:01 am
Post subject: Re: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I've had 4 Toyotas. Never a starter problem on any of them. The 2001
Avalon sucked for other reasons though.
"C. E. White" <cewhite3 RemoveThis @removemindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4685147b$1@kcnews01...
> Wednesday, as I was getting ready to leave town, a lady flagged me down in
> the parking lot and asked me to help with Her Toyota. It was a late model
> Camry and it wouldn't start. The owner though the problem was a dead
> battery and already had the jumper cables out. Unfortunately the car was
> in between two parked cars and I couldn't get my truck close enough to
> jump them. Based on my past problem with Japanese starters I was not sure
> the battery was dead at all. I had the owner turn on the headlights and
> try to start the car. There was a soft click, but nothing happened, and
> the headlights did not dim at all. This reinforced my suspicion that the
> problem was not a dead battery. I checked the starter fuse and it was
> fine. Before I could take the next step, the owner of the car next to the
> dead car appeared and offered to jump the car. I didn't think this would
> help, but figured it wouldn't hurt either. As I expected, jumping the car
> made no difference. At this point, I applied my sole piece of Toyota
> expertise - I had the car owner turn the key to start, I got out my 1 inch
> wrench, and whacked the starter solenoid with it. The car immediately
> started. The crowd that had gathered was in awe (well amazed a tiny bit at
> least). My last piece of advice to the car owner was to get the starter
> serviced. I doubt she could take the starter apart, but if it was my car,
> I would have taken the solenoid off the car, made sure the bore was
> cleaned and checked the contacts for wear. I have no idea why it is the
> Japanese (or at least Nipondenso) can't figure out how to make a decent
> starter solenoid. The last Toyota I owned had exactly the same problem. So
> have my two Kubota tractors. At least for the tractors, replacement
> solenoids were readily available (a sure sign they are a problem part) and
> easy to replace, but they were expensive.
>
> Ed
> >> Stay informed about: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner |
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External
Since: Jul 04, 2004
Posts: 316
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:01 am
Post subject: Re: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Art" <begunaNOSPAMPLEASE.TakeThisOut@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:G3hhi.2234$Od7.364@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I've had 4 Toyotas. Never a starter problem on any of them. The 2001
> Avalon sucked for other reasons though.
>
This disturbs me (I have an 03 Avalon) and have to wonder what was wrong
with your 2001? In my case , the Avalon is the best car (by far) that I've
owned. >> Stay informed about: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner |
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Since: Jan 02, 2007
Posts: 293
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:55 am
Post subject: Re: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:15:57 -0400, "C. E. White"
<cewhite3 RemoveThis @removemindspring.com> wrote:
>Wednesday, as I was getting ready to leave town, a lady flagged me
>down in the parking lot and asked me to help with Her Toyota. It was a
>late model Camry and it wouldn't start. The owner though the problem
>was a dead battery and already had the jumper cables out.
>
>Unfortunately the car was in between two parked cars and I couldn't
>get my truck close enough to jump them. Based on my past problem with
>Japanese starters I was not sure the battery was dead at all. I had
>the owner turn on the headlights and try to start the car. There was a
>soft click, but nothing happened, and the headlights did not dim at
>all. This reinforced my suspicion that the problem was not a dead
>battery. I checked the starter fuse and it was fine.
If the lights come on bright and don't dim when the key is turned,
but you get the loud click from the solenoid, there is a problem
getting power to the starter motor. Usual cause below.
> Before I could
>take the next step, the owner of the car next to the dead car appeared
>and offered to jump the car. I didn't think this would help, but
>figured it wouldn't hurt either. As I expected, jumping the car made
>no difference. At this point, I applied my sole piece of Toyota
>expertise - I had the car owner turn the key to start, I got out my 1
>inch wrench, and whacked the starter solenoid with it. The car
>immediately started. The crowd that had gathered was in awe (well
>amazed a tiny bit at least).
Bada-Bing, that's proof - it was the starter solenoid. And I'll bet
if you asked, it was starting to not start the first few tries, then
it would go on the third or fourth try. (And they can do that for a
year or two.) A $5 set of copper power switching contacts inside the
solenoid, and it's all better.
>My last piece of advice to the car owner
>was to get the starter serviced. I doubt she could take the starter
>apart, but if it was my car, I would have taken the solenoid off the
>car, made sure the bore was cleaned and checked the contacts for wear.
>I have no idea why it is the Japanese (or at least Nipondenso) can't
>figure out how to make a decent starter solenoid. The last Toyota I
>owned had exactly the same problem. So have my two Kubota tractors. At
>least for the tractors, replacement solenoids were readily available
>(a sure sign they are a problem part) and easy to replace, but they
>were expensive.
The entire solenoid assembly new is expensive, the power contacts
are not. And any good starter shop can swap the contacts out, freshen
up the starter motor (clean and lube, check bearings/bushings, new
brushes) and solve the problem for another 10 years.
--<< Bruce >>-- >> Stay informed about: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner |
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Since: Jan 02, 2007
Posts: 293
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:55 am
Post subject: Re: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 21:17:20 -0400, "WickeddollŽ"
<wickeddollNoEffingSpam1958.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>"Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" ...
> "WickeddollŽ"
>>>
>>>But regarding the cost - which is better, the chunk of cash, or dead you?
>>
>> I would have been fine, the starter motor just would have completely
>> burned up during the flight. <G>
>
>O_o
Relax, Ms. Nervous Norvus. The airplane has enough backup systems
on the backup systems... They have a cutoff switch on the starter,
and the magnetos don't need battery power to keep the engine running.
>> Oddly enough, starters that get stuck engaged are common enough for
>> some planes to have a "starter engaged" warning light. The only
>> other symptom, besides the billowing smoke that comes later, is a
>> faint gear whine which is barely audible over the engine. Fortunately,
>> I have a good noise reducing headset, so I could actually hear the
>> abnormal sound. The ring gear is on the front of the engine, on the
>> back of the prop hub, so the whole mechanism gets exposed to lots of
>> high speed weather, making things crusty at times.
>
>SMOKE?! Gawd.
Yes, smoke. I've explained "Magic Smoke" before - once it escapes,
the bad stuff usually stops happening... And planes are running open
headers or very rudimentary mufflers, so they run noisy as hell on
purpose - no muffler to clog and cause an engine failure. It's hard
to hear the starter over that.
>> The starter is usually just underneath one of the cowl intake holes,
>> and the alternator is under the other. You're supposed to look in the
>> holes during the pre-flight inspection and check the alternator belt
>> tension with your fingers.
>
>That's it. I'm taking the train to Europe.
>
>Natalie
As God once told Moses: "How long can you tread water?" 
They don't run trains that direction, and cruise ships are a slow
and expensive way to get across. (They aren't running regularly
scheduled liners as cheap transit anymore...)
Small planes are just as safe as big planes, the important thing is
that the pilots, mechanics and other support personnel are competent
and well trained, and the equipment is kept up to snuff. So the
probability of bad stuff happening is low, and if "Stuff" does happen
they can handle it.
(They spend a lot of time in flight simulators having emergency
situations thrown at them, so the reactions are automatic.)
What worries me is a weekend pilot that only flies twice a year
(just barely enough to keep his license current) in a plane rented
from a low-budget outfit where they only do the minimum needed work to
meet the regs - even though the last two pilots have reported a funny
noise that should have been checked out but wasn't...
--<< Bruce >>-- >> Stay informed about: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner |
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Since: Aug 15, 2006
Posts: 299
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:17 am
Post subject: Re: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Art" <begunaNOSPAMPLEASE DeleteThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:G3hhi.2234$Od7.364@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I've had 4 Toyotas. Never a starter problem on any of them. The 2001
> Avalon sucked for other reasons though.
Just like YOUR politics sucks for MANY reasons.
>
>
> "C. E. White" <cewhite3 DeleteThis @removemindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:4685147b$1@kcnews01...
>> Wednesday, as I was getting ready to leave town, a lady flagged me down
>> in the parking lot and asked me to help with Her Toyota. It was a late
>> model Camry and it wouldn't start. The owner though the problem was a
>> dead battery and already had the jumper cables out. Unfortunately the car
>> was in between two parked cars and I couldn't get my truck close enough
>> to jump them. Based on my past problem with Japanese starters I was not
>> sure the battery was dead at all. I had the owner turn on the headlights
>> and try to start the car. There was a soft click, but nothing happened,
>> and the headlights did not dim at all. This reinforced my suspicion that
>> the problem was not a dead battery. I checked the starter fuse and it was
>> fine. Before I could take the next step, the owner of the car next to the
>> dead car appeared and offered to jump the car. I didn't think this would
>> help, but figured it wouldn't hurt either. As I expected, jumping the car
>> made no difference. At this point, I applied my sole piece of Toyota
>> expertise - I had the car owner turn the key to start, I got out my 1
>> inch wrench, and whacked the starter solenoid with it. The car
>> immediately started. The crowd that had gathered was in awe (well amazed
>> a tiny bit at least). My last piece of advice to the car owner was to get
>> the starter serviced. I doubt she could take the starter apart, but if it
>> was my car, I would have taken the solenoid off the car, made sure the
>> bore was cleaned and checked the contacts for wear. I have no idea why it
>> is the Japanese (or at least Nipondenso) can't figure out how to make a
>> decent starter solenoid. The last Toyota I owned had exactly the same
>> problem. So have my two Kubota tractors. At least for the tractors,
>> replacement solenoids were readily available (a sure sign they are a
>> problem part) and easy to replace, but they were expensive.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>
> >> Stay informed about: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner |
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External
Since: Feb 25, 2007
Posts: 148
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:55 am
Post subject: Re: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 20:29:42 -0700, "mack" <mackerel DeleteThis @dslextreme.com>
wrote:
>
>Wasn't it possible to disengage the starter by rocking the engine by the
>prop? Was it basically the spring that retracts the gear from the start
>position which broke?
Sure, but it restuck upon the next start. There were no volunteers
available to get between the cowl and the prop to free the starter
once the engine was running, or for hand propping. <G>
>I guess the reason for the high cost is that the part has the term "aero" in
>front of it, just as any parts for a boat, with "marine" in the name of them
>automatically cost about four or five times what they should otherwise.
No argument there. Low demand, and the FAA parts approval process
certainly don't help. De-certifying the aircraft to experimental
status kills the resale value, but can save a bunch on parts. Oddly
enough, I've never paid less than the going labor rate at an aircraft
repair shop to an automotive shop. >> Stay informed about: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner |
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Since: Jun 04, 2004
Posts: 1198
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:41 am
Post subject: Re: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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It was a rattle box. Dashboard installed crooked. Brake pedal used to drop
about an inch sometimes as the engine slowed down as you rolled to a stop.
That would wake people up big time. You could feel the car lengthen as you
hit the gas and shorten as you hit the brake. A bunch were recalled because
the subframe was inadequately welded. I'm sure mine was defective but it
was not in the recall list. That is just a start. One of the worse cars I
ever owned. My fourth and last Toyota. I friend with a 2000 felt the same.
Maybe they fixed the problems by 2003.
"mack" <mackerel.TakeThisOut@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:138bj1dsria6s7d@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Art" <begunaNOSPAMPLEASE.TakeThisOut@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:G3hhi.2234$Od7.364@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> I've had 4 Toyotas. Never a starter problem on any of them. The 2001
>> Avalon sucked for other reasons though.
>>
> This disturbs me (I have an 03 Avalon) and have to wonder what was wrong
> with your 2001? In my case , the Avalon is the best car (by far) that
> I've owned.
> >> Stay informed about: Managed to Help A Toyota Owner |
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