Will the MI16 fit into a 305 van?

Hi,

 > Is it possible to fit an MI16 lump under the bonnet of a MK2 305 Van?
I'm pretty dubtious about the exhaust manifold.
Many wiring too, to fit the ECU, but it doesn't seem impossible, considering
that Chris has already done it (he was starting from a GTX, IIRC and fit a
SRi (XU9J2 (D6A)) head & injection). I guess he'll write more if he reads
that.

 > Will the BE-type gearbox mate to the MI16 without hiccups?
Sure, as the Mi16 lump is a XU block, so a BE is just the way to go. Perhaps
you could have some problems when trying to fit a BE3 (gear linkage), but
I'm not really sure about that.

 > If the MI16 is unsuitable, are there any other engines that are
 > suitable.
The XU9J2 (D6A) will fit in, too. I don't advise you to buy a D6B (XU9JA)
block, 'cause it has a little less torque (but 5HP more than the 'J2).

Regards,
G.T
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 >> Stay informed about: Will the MI16 fit into a 305 van? 

"G.T" <g.t6 RemoveThis @worldonline.fr> wrote in message
news:42a49c33$0$30742$626a14ce@news.free.fr...
 > Hi,
 >
  >> Is it possible to fit an MI16 lump under the bonnet of a MK2 305 Van?
 > I'm pretty dubtious about the exhaust manifold.
 > Many wiring too, to fit the ECU, but it doesn't seem impossible,
 > considering
 > that Chris has already done it (he was starting from a GTX, IIRC and fit a
 > SRi (XU9J2 (D6A)) head & injection). I guess he'll write more if he reads
 > that.
 >

I forgot about the manifold in my other post - indeed it could be a problem,
however IIRC the Mi16 needs to be mounted at a slightly different angle to a
standard XU engine - it should tilt further back I think? Therefore, if the
lower engine mount is modified correctly (and possibly the mount under the
battery tray as well), the exhaust manifold might clear the bulkhead. Of
course, in the 205 GTi, I think some bodywork modification is required.
There is also the possibility of getting something made up to fit - if the
Mi16 manifold will fit on, maybe just a different shape downpipe would be
required.
On the wiring - I don't think it's too much hassle if you get some proper
wiring schematics for the actual ECU systems (rather than anything useless
in the Haynes manual). You can get away without using the static ignition -
you can buy a conversion kit which allows you to use a standard 205/405
GTi/etc distributor cap.. although I would rather put the whole electronic
system in from the Mi16, as it'll most likely run better.

  >> Will the BE-type gearbox mate to the MI16 without hiccups?
 > Sure, as the Mi16 lump is a XU block, so a BE is just the way to go.
 > Perhaps
 > you could have some problems when trying to fit a BE3 (gear linkage), but
 > I'm not really sure about that.

I'm inclined to think that just about any BE box should fit (although you're
right about the gear linkages being different), the only exception possibly
being the 306 GTi6 'box - which is 6 speed and is physically longer, which
might obstruct your steering if nothing else (although again, I'd probably
try it if I got a 6-speed box!).

  >> If the MI16 is unsuitable, are there any other engines that are
  >> suitable.
 > The XU9J2 (D6A) will fit in, too. I don't advise you to buy a D6B (XU9JA)
 > block, 'cause it has a little less torque (but 5HP more than the 'J2).

The 305 is not a particularly heavy car - even in it's heaviest form as the
GTX, it weighs in at 1050kg, which to me seems quite light for a relatively
big car. The Mi16 would be a fun thing to put in, but it may be overkill and
you really would need to uprate everything. I'd even think about trying to
get some rear discs off a 306 or something to see if they could fit.

The simplest route to more power would be the XU9J2. Works fine in my car!



Chris.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Will the MI16 fit into a 305 van? 

On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 16:36:03 GMT, "Chris B"
<lord_waymasterNO RemoveThis @SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Chris good to see you here again

must say that my 305 van passed the MOT yesterday without so much as a
flaw ( not even the usual broken tailplate lights) so there is
another year of happy motoring, although some twatt drove in the left
front wing the other week and i still have to repair that

 >
 >"Smiffo" <UseLinkToEmail RemoveThis @AutoForumz.com> wrote in message
 >news:1_598106_1d564796798dae8e88dee08098082d43@autoforumz.com...
  >> Is it possible to fit an MI16 lump under the bonnet of a MK2 305 Van?
  >> I’ve recently looked into buying one, but will want more power out of
  >> it if I do decide to buy it.
  >>
  >> If the MI16 is unsuitable, are there any other engines that are
  >> suitable.
  >> Will the BE-type gearbox mate to the MI16 without hiccups?
  >>
  >> Lastly, obviously the van will handle like a bag of sick when pushed,
  >> so what can I do to the suspension to change this.
 >
 >I know a guy who fitted a turbo diesel engine from a 405 I think (IIRC) -
 >he'd had it tuned and I believe had fitted uprated shocks front and back.
 >Now, from a different chap I know - he lowered his 305 saloon with the aid
 >of 205 shocks and stiffened springs, apparently it handles very well now
 >although I haven't seen it in action. So, you should have plenty of
 >suspension options up front - the rear is a bit different, but you might be
 >able to find something like 306 rear suspension will fit.

the 305 van suspension differs on may way's to the one of a saloon so
putting a 306 suspension in would be difficult i guess

shawn had put Spax shocks in and the front disc's of the 405 donor car
( straight swap) and then tuned up the engine to a very dangerous 150
BHP.
this is the time i'd say a rollcage could be beneficial to the well
being of you family as you sure will leave them behind without<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Will the MI16 fit into a 305 van? 

"Marc" <reply.DeleteThis@newsgroup.only> wrote in message
news:66maa1pqo3dvbldsjeq1lso41pbpeemu83@4ax.com...
 > On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 16:36:03 GMT, "Chris B"
 > <lord_waymasterNO.DeleteThis@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
 >
 > Hi Chris good to see you here again
 >
 > must say that my 305 van passed the MOT yesterday without so much as a
 > flaw ( not even the usual broken tailplate lights) so there is
 > another year of happy motoring, although some twatt drove in the left
 > front wing the other week and i still have to repair that
 >

Hi Marc,

Glad to hear your van is still going strong!
My 305 has been off the road for a year whilst I drove around in a Porsche
924, which I have now sold and bought a Porsche 944! But, a week ago, I
drove it out of the undercover car park I left it at and gave it a wash. It
still drove fine after a year, however after only two or three miles, the
radiator started leaking!

Here's some pics:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.wellcheap.com/gallery/Chris-Bs-Pug" target="_blank">http://www.wellcheap.com/gallery/Chris-Bs-Pug</a>

It'll be back on the road properly soon!


  >>
  >>I know a guy who fitted a turbo diesel engine from a 405 I think (IIRC) -
  >>he'd had it tuned and I believe had fitted uprated shocks front and back.
  >>Now, from a different chap I know - he lowered his 305 saloon with the aid
  >>of 205 shocks and stiffened springs, apparently it handles very well now
  >>although I haven't seen it in action. So, you should have plenty of
  >>suspension options up front - the rear is a bit different, but you might
  >>be
  >>able to find something like 306 rear suspension will fit.
 >
 > the 305 van suspension differs on may way's to the one of a saloon so
 > putting a 306 suspension in would be difficult i guess

Yes, however the 306 (at least the hatchback) suspension is similar in
design to that of the 305.. I think the shocks may fit, although I might be
wrong.

 > shawn had put Spax shocks in and the front disc's of the 405 donor car
 > ( straight swap) and then tuned up the engine to a very dangerous 150
 > BHP.
 > this is the time i'd say a rollcage could be beneficial to the well
 > being of you family as you sure will leave them behind without
 >

I agree. Apparently the 305 was a very safe car, when it was launched in
1977 and only had something like 70bhp maximum!

Chris.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Will the MI16 fit into a 305 van? 

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 10:49:27 GMT, "Chris B"
<lord_waymasterNO.RemoveThis@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:

 >
 >"Marc" <reply.RemoveThis@newsgroup.only> wrote in message
 >news:66maa1pqo3dvbldsjeq1lso41pbpeemu83@4ax.com...
  >> On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 16:36:03 GMT, "Chris B"
  >> <lord_waymasterNO.RemoveThis@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
  >>
  >> Hi Chris good to see you here again
  >>
  >> must say that my 305 van passed the MOT yesterday without so much as a
  >> flaw ( not even the usual broken tailplate lights) so there is
  >> another year of happy motoring, although some twatt drove in the left
  >> front wing the other week and i still have to repair that
  >>
 >
 >Hi Marc,
 >
 >Glad to hear your van is still going strong!
 >My 305 has been off the road for a year whilst I drove around in a Porsche
 >924, which I have now sold and bought a Porsche 944! But, a week ago, I
 >drove it out of the undercover car park I left it at and gave it a wash. It
 >still drove fine after a year, however after only two or three miles, the
 >radiator started leaking!
 >
 >Here's some pics:
 >
 >http://www.wellcheap.com/gallery/Chris-Bs-Pug

looking fine! i must say that mine looks pretty banged up, got to find
the time , place and funds to do a rebuild, bodywork respray etc

 >
 >It'll be back on the road properly soon!

probably a much smoother ride than a 944....
 >
 >
   >>>
   >>>I know a guy who fitted a turbo diesel engine from a 405 I think (IIRC) -
   >>>he'd had it tuned and I believe had fitted uprated shocks front and back.
   >>>Now, from a different chap I know - he lowered his 305 saloon with the aid
   >>>of 205 shocks and stiffened springs, apparently it handles very well now
   >>>although I haven't seen it in action. So, you should have plenty of
   >>>suspension options up front - the rear is a bit different, but you might
   >>>be
   >>>able to find something like 306 rear suspension will fit.
  >>
  >> the 305 van suspension differs on may way's to the one of a saloon so
  >> putting a 306 suspension in would be difficult i guess
 >
 >Yes, however the 306 (at least the hatchback) suspension is similar in
 >design to that of the 305.. I think the shocks may fit, although I might be
 >wrong.
 >
  >> shawn had put Spax shocks in and the front disc's of the 405 donor car
  >> ( straight swap) and then tuned up the engine to a very dangerous 150
  >> BHP.
  >> this is the time i'd say a rollcage could be beneficial to the well
  >> being of you family as you sure will leave them behind without
  >>
 >
 >I agree. Apparently the 305 was a very safe car, when it was launched in
 >1977 and only had something like 70bhp maximum!



 >
 >Chris.
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Will the MI16 fit into a 305 van? 

Hi Chris,

 > My 305 has been off the road for a year whilst I drove around in a Porsche
 > 924, which I have now sold and bought a Porsche 944! But, a week ago
Mmmm, I see you still have some taste for common cars BTW, what about
the RX-7 ?

Regards,
G.T
g.t6 RemoveThis @worldonline.fr
205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://205d.fr.st" target="_blank">http://205d.fr.st</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Will the MI16 fit into a 305 van? 

Hi Chris,

 > I'm inclined to think that just about any BE box should fit (although
you're
 > right about the gear linkages being different), the only exception
possibly
Yes, appart from the linkage, any BEx/4 or /5 should fit.
I guess the BE1 retrofit to a car engineered for a BE3 causes huge clearance
into gear selection (saying that from experience, with my brother's DTurbo
which now has a BE1/5).

 > being the 306 GTi6 'box - which is 6 speed and is physically longer, which
 > might obstruct your steering if nothing else (although again, I'd probably
 > try it if I got a 6-speed box!).
True, the GTi6 gearbox (S16 here), is slightly longer (although it's a BE3
series). I guess it should fit to a 305, considering a XU is set on the
right of the engine bay, and the 305 bay shouldn't be smaller than the 306
(not measured myself, just a thought).

  > > The XU9J2 (D6A) will fit in, too. I don't advise you to buy a D6B
(XU9JA)
  > > block, 'cause it has a little less torque (but 5HP more than the 'J2).
 > The 305 is not a particularly heavy car - even in it's heaviest form as
the
 > GTX, it weighs in at 1050kg, which to me seems quite light for a
relatively
 > big car. The Mi16 would be a fun thing to put in, but it may be overkill
and
True, but I think the torque lost for these extra 5HP may give a kind of
uncomfy ride ("damn I have to change gear again").

 > you really would need to uprate everything. I'd even think about trying to
 > get some rear discs off a 306 or something to see if they could fit.
Mmmm, not necessary, but a good set of discs (vented discs) at front could
well be a way to go.

 > The simplest route to more power would be the XU9J2. Works fine in my car!
 >
You made it, the fuel-injected 305 that Pug never built

Regards,
G.T
g.t6 RemoveThis @worldonline.fr
205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://205d.fr.st" target="_blank">http://205d.fr.st</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Will the MI16 fit into a 305 van? 

Hi,

 > Finally, I've fitted fuel injection to my 305 GTX so it should be putting
 > out around 125bhp (same as the 205 GTi) - tbh that's plenty of power
unless
 > you're hauling something really heavy. I do believe an Mi16 engine should
Yup, but with 125 or 130HP (if using a 'JA) the 305 should be able to
overtake some "said sporty and superior" cars like VW Golf Mk4 GTi (I even
don't consider the Mk1 and 2, Pug having built cars to fix them on the
road). And yes, I hate Golfs, that's life.
Having said that, must be great fun to pass a Golf GTi, and the VW's drivers
to think "what the f#ck is that car, damn I still have so many months to pay
for this pile of crap"

My brother used to have great fun with Golf TDi90 drivers that way

Oh, BTW, fitting a Mi16 block into a 305, please allow me to call it suicide
!
160HP to pull a 305, perhaps it would tear the body appart under hard accel


Regards,
G.T
g.t6.TakeThisOut@worldonline.fr
205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://205d.fr.st" target="_blank">http://205d.fr.st</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Will the MI16 fit into a 305 van? 

"G.T" <g.t6 DeleteThis @worldonline.fr> wrote in message
news:42a5d11e$0$23111$636a15ce@news.free.fr...
 > Hi,
 >
  >> Finally, I've fitted fuel injection to my 305 GTX so it should be putting
  >> out around 125bhp (same as the 205 GTi) - tbh that's plenty of power
 > unless
  >> you're hauling something really heavy. I do believe an Mi16 engine should
 > Yup, but with 125 or 130HP (if using a 'JA) the 305 should be able to
 > overtake some "said sporty and superior" cars like VW Golf Mk4 GTi (I even
 > don't consider the Mk1 and 2, Pug having built cars to fix them on the
 > road). And yes, I hate Golfs, that's life.
 > Having said that, must be great fun to pass a Golf GTi, and the VW's
 > drivers
 > to think "what the f#ck is that car, damn I still have so many months to
 > pay
 > for this pile of crap"
 >

I've overtaken some far better looking cars in that 305. I think the best,
though, was a little Citroen Saxo - it had a body kit like it was a fast
one, but of course I can't tell for certain. The guy driving it furiously
tried to keep up with me along a dual carriageway as he wanted to overtake -
I could see his car shaking with every gearchange! Alas, it was in vain as I
went up through the gears and he disappeared in my mirror.. a couple of
miles down the road, I turned off up a slip road and he went sailing past -
some woman in the passenger seat looking me directly in the eye as I laughed
heartily.

I know, I know.. it should in no way be enjoyable to have a stupid race with
another car.... but... yeah it was fun

You know, the Porsche is nowhere near as much fun, as the only people who
try to race me have much faster cars.

Chris.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Will the MI16 fit into a 305 van? 

"G.T" <g.t6 RemoveThis @worldonline.fr> wrote in message
news:42a5d118$0$23111$636a15ce@news.free.fr...
 > Hi Chris,
 >
  >> My 305 has been off the road for a year whilst I drove around in a
  >> Porsche
  >> 924, which I have now sold and bought a Porsche 944! But, a week ago
 > Mmmm, I see you still have some taste for common cars BTW, what about
 > the RX-7 ?
 >

I'll be back in that 305 more often soon

We still have the RX-7 (just fitted a powerflow stainless steel exhaust
system - it's LOUD!), although I'm not insured on it anymore - so I don't
drive it. When I get a bit of money maybe I'll get re-insured... first I
have to work on the 305, and the 944 needs a respray!!!

Chris.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Will the MI16 fit into a 305 van? 

Hi,

  > > Mmmm, I see you still have some taste for common cars BTW, what
about
  > > the RX-7 ?
 > I'll be back in that 305 more often soon
I have nothing against Porsche's, BTW.

 > We still have the RX-7 (just fitted a powerflow stainless steel exhaust
 > system - it's LOUD!), although I'm not insured on it anymore - so I don't
With the Wankel turbo must be loud but so good !

 > drive it. When I get a bit of money maybe I'll get re-insured... first I
 > have to work on the 305, and the 944 needs a respray!!!
What coulour will you apply, then ? Dark blue ?
As I said, I just don't have any reason to split on Porsche's - I've just
been disappointed by recent ones, too posh, no sporty anymore.
The 944, and even more 924s are the only one Porsche I could really afford
and service. Damn I just missed a '84 GTi 105HP !

Regards,
G.T
g.t6 RemoveThis @worldonline.fr
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 >> Stay informed about: Will the MI16 fit into a 305 van? 

Hi,

Sorry I first sent it by e-mail, wrong button pressed.

 > I've overtaken some far better looking cars in that 305. I think the best,
 > though, was a little Citroen Saxo - it had a body kit like it was a fast
 > one, but of course I can't tell for certain. The guy driving it furiously
Well, the fastest cars often are the most discrete. Driving muppets don't
deserve a race against me

 > I know, I know.. it should in no way be enjoyable to have a stupid race
with
 > another car.... but... yeah it was fun
Yeah, it's fun. The speedcamera is far less :-/
I haven't played that much, certainly 'cause a 205D has its limits, but
still, I remember having drove up to 170KPH (105MPH) downhill on a motorway,
and so kept behind a Laguna2 which was stuck to my ass up to 160KPH.

 > You know, the Porsche is nowhere near as much fun, as the only people who
 > try to race me have much faster cars.
I can imagine that. No fun anymore
I have a video in this PC's hardrive which shows a 0-180KPH with a 944S2,
damn' that's violent, 15 seconds are enough !

Regards,
G.T
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 >> Stay informed about: Will the MI16 fit into a 305 van? 

right simple answer no it wont. it might fit in the engine bay but you will have endless greif with everything else as all mi16 conversions were done on 205 gti. so in kind dont waste your time nor money.
 >> Stay informed about: Will the MI16 fit into a 305 van?