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Ignition problem

 
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Yvan

External


Since: Sep 12, 2004
Posts: 53



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:20 pm
Post subject: Ignition problem
Archived from groups: alt>autos>bmw (more info?)

I am about to fit Ford EDIS (Electronic Distributorless Ignition
System) into my '87 E30 316 (M10 engine). While I was testing EDIS
something happened to the original ignition system.

I just disconnected HT leads from the distributor, and connected them
to the EDIS ignition coil. I started the engine , and let it run for
20 min or so.

Original ignition control unit (TCI) was connected, as was ignition
coil and pulse generator (in the distributor). I only disconnected HT
leads.

When I finished testing EDIS, I connected HT leads back - and the
engine would not start. I checked (ten times) that I connected HT leads
in right order (1-3-4-2 anticlockwise). I removed one HT lead and
connected it to a spare spark plug - and I had the spark.

I than connected EDIS back - the engine started immediately. Again back
to the original ignition system - now no spark at all.

So I checked if I had +12V and ground at ignition control unit - OK,
lead from it to ignition coil is OK, pulse generator resistance was OK,
only pulse generator gives 0.75V (should be 1-2 V). Perhaps I should
mention that it was -4 Celsius (-25F) when I measured this. Ignition
coil is ~0.8 ohm primary, and ~8kohm secondary.

I tried with spare ignition control unit - and it does not work.

Any thoughts about what might have cause pulse generator to fail (if it
failed)? Or did I miss something?

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/__/ / \ ** Registrovani korisnik Linuksa #291606 **
/ / \/ /\ \ ** Registered Linux user #291606 **
/__/\____/--\__\ ** http://counter.li.org/ **

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Michael Yeager

External


Since: Sep 19, 2007
Posts: 36



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Ignition problem [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 16:20:21 +0100, Yvan <me RemoveThis @privacy.net> wrote:

>I am about to fit Ford EDIS (Electronic Distributorless Ignition
>System) into my '87 E30 316 (M10 engine). While I was testing EDIS
>something happened to the original ignition system.

Sounds like a worthwhile upgrade. Is there a guide somewhere that
shows what has to be done to make this work?

>I just disconnected HT leads from the distributor, and connected them
>to the EDIS ignition coil. I started the engine , and let it run for
>20 min or so.
>
>Original ignition control unit (TCI) was connected, as was ignition
>coil and pulse generator (in the distributor). I only disconnected HT
>leads.

Might should have disconnected the original system completely.

>When I finished testing EDIS, I connected HT leads back - and the
>engine would not start. I checked (ten times) that I connected HT leads
>in right order (1-3-4-2 anticlockwise). I removed one HT lead and
>connected it to a spare spark plug - and I had the spark.
>
>I than connected EDIS back - the engine started immediately. Again back
>to the original ignition system - now no spark at all.
>
>So I checked if I had +12V and ground at ignition control unit - OK,
>lead from it to ignition coil is OK, pulse generator resistance was OK,
>only pulse generator gives 0.75V (should be 1-2 V). Perhaps I should
>mention that it was -4 Celsius (-25F) when I measured this. Ignition
>coil is ~0.8 ohm primary, and ~8kohm secondary.
>
>I tried with spare ignition control unit - and it does not work.
>
>Any thoughts about what might have cause pulse generator to fail (if it
>failed)? Or did I miss something?

The failure is most likely in the coil as it was left to fire
without anywhere for the spark to go. The continous arcing inside the
coil will eventually burn the insulation and create a short. If the
EDIS works, why go back???

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Yvan

External


Since: Sep 12, 2004
Posts: 53



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:58 am
Post subject: Re: Ignition problem [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Nedavno Michael Yeager napisa:

> On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 16:20:21 +0100, Yvan <me.TakeThisOut@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> >I am about to fit Ford EDIS (Electronic Distributorless Ignition
> >System) into my '87 E30 316 (M10 engine). While I was testing EDIS
> >something happened to the original ignition system.
>
> Sounds like a worthwhile upgrade. Is there a guide somewhere that
> shows what has to be done to make this work?

Not for BMW specifically. You use EDIS ignition module and MegaJolt
controller unit for timing. It's all here:

www.autosportlabs.net




> >I just disconnected HT leads from the distributor, and connected them
> >to the EDIS ignition coil. I started the engine , and let it run for
> >20 min or so.
> >
> >Original ignition control unit (TCI) was connected, as was ignition
> >coil and pulse generator (in the distributor). I only disconnected HT
> >leads.
>
> Might should have disconnected the original system completely.


Well it seems that I learned this the hard way Smile



> The failure is most likely in the coil as it was left to fire
> without anywhere for the spark to go. The continous arcing inside the
> coil will eventually burn the insulation and create a short. If the
> EDIS works, why go back???


It's cold now, and I will do further tests when the weather improves.

I do not want to go back, I just wanted to keep original ignition
system as a backup.




--
___ ____
/__/ / \ ** Registrovani korisnik Linuksa #291606 **
/ / \/ /\ \ ** Registered Linux user #291606 **
/__/\____/--\__\ ** http://counter.li.org/ **
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Michael Yeager

External


Since: Sep 19, 2007
Posts: 36



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Ignition problem [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I did a little research on the EDIS system yesterday and discovered
it will adapt to our engines with very little effort. Much better than
the distributor setup, especially the ones used in the older engines.
The EDIS will operate in a limp home mode so I'm not sure the need to
retain the original system is so great. Does the oil pump drive off of
the distributor shaft in that motor? If not, you could remove the
distributor completely and get a plug to fill the hole. Talk about
cleaning up the engine bay...
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Yvan

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Since: Sep 12, 2004
Posts: 53



(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:02 am
Post subject: Re: Ignition problem [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Nedavno Michael Yeager napisa:

> I did a little research on the EDIS system yesterday and discovered
> it will adapt to our engines with very little effort. Much better than
> the distributor setup, especially the ones used in the older engines.


And that's why I decided to fit EDIS.



> The EDIS will operate in a limp home mode so I'm not sure the need to
> retain the original system is so great.


I wanted to keep the original ignition system as I do not want to limp
home for 500 km Smile But few MegaJolt users told me that it's quite
reliable, so perhaps I am going to remove all old stuff. The only
problem I have is that MegaJolt kit did not arrive (and will not be
here for two weeks), so I can not drive my car.



> Does the oil pump drive off of the distributor shaft in that motor?
> If not, you could remove the distributor completely and get a plug to
> fill the hole. Talk about cleaning up the engine bay...


I was thinking the same. From Bentley manual:

"On models with 4-cylinder engines, the oil pump is driven by a chain
actuated by a gear on the front of the crankshaft."

So it should be OK to remove distributor. And I will fabricate a
bracket for EDIS ignition coil that will place where distributor was. I
have old distributor that I do not use, perhaps I can modify it to
act as a bracket for ignition coil.




--
___ ____
/__/ / \ ** Registrovani korisnik Linuksa #291606 **
/ / \/ /\ \ ** Registered Linux user #291606 **
/__/\____/--\__\ ** http://counter.li.org/ **
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Yvan

External


Since: Sep 12, 2004
Posts: 53



(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Ignition problem [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Nedavno Yvan napisa:

> I tried with spare ignition control unit - and it does not work.
>
> Any thoughts about what might have cause pulse generator to fail (if
> it failed)?


Pulse generator did not fail. It was the coil. All OK with the new one.


--
___ ____
/__/ / \ ** Registrovani korisnik Linuksa #291606 **
/ / \/ /\ \ ** Registered Linux user #291606 **
/__/\____/--\__\ ** http://counter.li.org/ **
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Michael Yeager

External


Since: Sep 19, 2007
Posts: 36



(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Ignition problem [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

As I suspected. The coil must never be allowed to fire without a path
for the spark to travel. When it does, it burns a path for the spark
to find a ground. Glad to hear the problem is resolved. Looks like a
neat project your involved with...

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 19:56:52 +0100, Yvan <me.RemoveThis@privacy.net> wrote:

>Nedavno Yvan napisa:
>
>> I tried with spare ignition control unit - and it does not work.
>>
>> Any thoughts about what might have cause pulse generator to fail (if
>> it failed)?
>
>
>Pulse generator did not fail. It was the coil. All OK with the new one.
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Yvan

External


Since: Sep 12, 2004
Posts: 53



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:55 am
Post subject: Re: Ignition problem [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Nedavno Michael Yeager napisa:

> As I suspected. The coil must never be allowed to fire without a path
> for the spark to travel. When it does, it burns a path for the spark
> to find a ground. Glad to hear the problem is resolved. Looks like a
> neat project your involved with...


Still waiting for MegaJolt ignition control module...



--
___ ____
/__/ / \ ** Registrovani korisnik Linuksa #291606 **
/ / \/ /\ \ ** Registered Linux user #291606 **
/__/\____/--\__\ ** http://counter.li.org/ **
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