Headgasket Leaking - Lemon Law help?

"subnoob" wrote in message

 > I have a 2000 Subaru Outback that developed coolant leaks at Headgaskets
 > leaked at 20,000, 46,000 and the last one at 63,000 miles. I had the tsb
 > done with the additive but it's done no good. Are there any good NJ
 > dealers out there that anyone can recommend? I'm talking to a lawyer to
 > see if there's anything I can do. Are there enough of us that we can get a
 > class action started or something? I'm desperate and just want Subaru to
 > fix this mess. Please email me if you've had any luck if getting this
 > fixed or or any luck with the lemon law or want to join a class action.
 > Something has to be done. Help!
 >

Good luck. My Mercury Sable had leaking head gaskets as well, and they
eventually blew, and despite the fact that it was very, very common on those
cars, there was never any recall. Nor was there one on the horrid
transmission either.

-Matt
 >> Stay informed about: Headgasket Leaking - Lemon Law help? 

Before doing anything check with a Subaru dealer -- the headgasket
should be covered by Subaru under an extended warranty for this
problem. Just two weeks ago, my wife's 2000 Outback (70,000 miles)
began to leak oil suddenly. I took it to my local Subaru dealer here
in Indianapolis and the dealer replaced the headgasket. According to
this dealer, Subaru is covering blown headgaskets under an extended
warranty program for up to 200,00 miles. There was no charge for my
wife's car.

Blown headgaskets apparently are a known problem area for the 2.5 l.
Subaru engine, but I was very pleased by how the problem was handled.
As soon as the dealer called me and explained the problem, he said it
would be coverd under the warranty. It cost me nothing and I even got
an oil change and new coolant in the deal.

This was the first repair on her Outback in almost five years other
than normal maintenance. I have been pleased with all four of the
Subaru's that we have owned. I currently drive a '92 Subaru SVX with
145,000 miles. Our two previous Subies went over 100,000 miles with
few repairs -- we gave our 95 Legacy to our son and it now has over
150,000 miles on it. I will be definitely be considering another
Subaru when I'm in the market for a new car.

Good luck!

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On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 12:00:02 -0500, "subnoob"
wrote:

 >I have a 2000 Subaru Outback that developed coolant leaks at Headgaskets
 >leaked at 20,000, 46,000 and the last one at 63,000 miles. I had the tsb
 >done with the additive but it's done no good. Are there any good NJ
 >dealers out there that anyone can recommend? I'm talking to a lawyer to
 >see if there's anything I can do. Are there enough of us that we can get a
 >class action started or something? I'm desperate and just want Subaru to
 >fix this mess. Please email me if you've had any luck if getting this
 >fixed or or any luck with the lemon law or want to join a class action.
 >Something has to be done. Help!
 >> Stay informed about: Headgasket Leaking - Lemon Law help? 

subnoob wrote:

 > Something has to be done. Help!

Well...

You could write your Congressperson, asking for a repeal of all the smog
laws so we can go back to all iron engines that run at 180 deg F!

Only being about half facetious here. From the stories I hear about
leaking/blown headgaskets on SO MANY makes today, it sounds like
nobody's managed to tame the problem. It's more complex than this, but
the short answer is the combination of extremely light alloy heads and
very high operating temps being used for smog purposes tends to allow
the heads to "move" and warp quite easily, creating the problems.

Sounds like you'd do well to have a qualified mechanic look the heads
over, checking for cracks and warpage. My machine shop owner friend says
a majority of heads respond well to being surfaced after the initial
headgasket problem and then the engine's far more reliable and long
lived. An experiment with a population of one is hardly valid, but in my
case, he was right on a 4 cyl Toyota... I haven't heard similar
experiences from Subie owners. If the gasket's being replaced and the
head's not "flat," it's probably a waste of money and time to keep doing
the replacement thing. So don't give up on trying to obtain satisfaction
from Subaru!

Good luck,

Rick
 >> Stay informed about: Headgasket Leaking - Lemon Law help? 

"subnoob" wrote in message

 > I have a 2000 Subaru Outback that developed coolant leaks at Headgaskets
 > leaked at 20,000, 46,000 and the last one at 63,000 miles. I had the tsb
 > done with the additive but it's done no good. Are there any good NJ
 > dealers out there that anyone can recommend? I'm talking to a lawyer to
 > see if there's anything I can do. Are there enough of us that we can get a
 > class action started or something? I'm desperate and just want Subaru to
 > fix this mess. Please email me if you've had any luck if getting this
 > fixed or or any luck with the lemon law or want to join a class action.
 > Something has to be done. Help!
 >

Doesn't anybody read anything they are sent? You have an 80,000 mile
warantee on the head gaskets as part of the TSB. Take it to the delaer.
 >> Stay informed about: Headgasket Leaking - Lemon Law help? 

Rick Courtright wrote:
 > subnoob wrote:
 >
 >
  >>Something has to be done. Help!
 >
 >
 > Well...
 >
 > You could write your Congressperson, asking for a repeal of all the smog
 > laws so we can go back to all iron engines that run at 180 deg F!

BTW, it's not clear to me at all how bad the
problem is. I was talking to the guy next
door that owns an auto repair shop. He works
on Subaru's and a) has never seen a blown head
gasket and b) has not seen any mention of the
problem in his subscription tech repair database.

I know that this doesn't make a person feel
any better that has a problem.

The more I hear of the problem, the more I suspect
air in coolant system as the original cause.

I've been tempted to come up with a small add-on
circuit board that would blink the CEL lamp if the
coolant temp went more than about 20% above normal.
 >> Stay informed about: Headgasket Leaking - Lemon Law help? 

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:48:42 -0500, "Alan" wrote:


 >Doesn't anybody read anything they are sent? You have an 80,000 mile
 >warantee on the head gaskets as part of the TSB. Take it to the delaer.


Mmmm... I've actually read it, it's 100,000 miles. Also if I read Alan's post correctly, he bought
the vehicle because he REQUIRES it for transporatation, not to leave in the shop every 21k miles for
the same problem, regardless of some empty warranty promise, be it infinite.

I'm a fan of Subaru... all the more reason I'll hold them responsible to maintain a high standard.
-Danny
 >> Stay informed about: Headgasket Leaking - Lemon Law help? 

Obviously a dealer/mechanic issue in that it has not been done
correctly the first time. ed
"Danny Russell" wrote in message


 >
 >
  >>Doesn't anybody read anything they are sent? You have an 80,000 mile
  >>warantee on the head gaskets as part of the TSB. Take it to the
  >>delaer.
 >
 >
 > Mmmm... I've actually read it, it's 100,000 miles. Also if I read
 > Alan's post correctly, he bought
 > the vehicle because he REQUIRES it for transporatation, not to leave
 > in the shop every 21k miles for
 > the same problem, regardless of some empty warranty promise, be it
 > infinite.
 >
 > I'm a fan of Subaru... all the more reason I'll hold them
 > responsible to maintain a high standard.
 > -Danny
 >> Stay informed about: Headgasket Leaking - Lemon Law help? 

Alan wrote:

 > Doesn't anybody read anything they are sent? You have an 80,000 mile
 > warantee on the head gaskets as part of the TSB. Take it to the delaer.

Hi,

I agree with Danny and Ed: a warranty's only as good as those who
service it. A lifetime warranty, serviced by an incompetent shop, isn't
worth the paper it's written on. OTOH, a competent shop that does the
job right first time is worth its weight in gold. The OP needs to do as
Danny suggests and hold these folks to a higher standard, be they
independents or dealers.

Rick
 >> Stay informed about: Headgasket Leaking - Lemon Law help? 

Some people are just penny wise pound foolish. They think they save a
couple bucks by not going to the dealer but then the monkey who does
the work does it wrong and it takes more time and grief to correct it.
Sure a timing belt change is expensive anywhere (what happened to
timing chains?) but most dealerships do the job right the first time. I
am fortunate to have found a Sub dealer that is respectable and charges
fairly. I will definitely bring my OBW to them for the belt change.
Brakes and such can be handled by anyone .
 >> Stay informed about: Headgasket Leaking - Lemon Law help? 

jabario.RemoveThis@backpacker.com wrote:
 > Some people are just penny wise pound foolish. They think they save a
 > couple bucks by not going to the dealer but then the monkey who does
 > the work does it wrong and it takes more time and grief to correct it.
 > Sure a timing belt change is expensive anywhere (what happened to
 > timing chains?) but most dealerships do the job right the first time. I
 > am fortunate to have found a Sub dealer that is respectable and charges
 > fairly. I will definitely bring my OBW to them for the belt change.
 > Brakes and such can be handled by anyone .
 >
One needs to be aware that Subaru is on the third design for the head
gasket.

I rarely pay someone to work on my car but did have an independent
shop do the HG repair. For me it was the right decision. Shop is
Subie only shop and has been in business for more than 20 yrs. Shop
says they have never had a HG failure on engines with third generation
HG design.

Their std service for replacing the HG is to remove the engine,
resurface the heads and replace ALL gaskets and seals on the engine.
They use nothing but factory parts. I paid $1300, the dealer wanted
$2000+ and no mention of resealing.

Good or bad service can be had at either dealer or independent shops.

Mickey
 >> Stay informed about: Headgasket Leaking - Lemon Law help? 

"Mickey" wrote in message

 > I rarely pay someone to work on my car but did have an independent shop do
 > the HG repair. For me it was the right decision. Shop is Subie only shop
 > and has been in business for more than 20 yrs. Shop says they have never
 > had a HG failure on engines with third generation HG design.

If this is true, then why does the owner's manual for my new 2005 Forester
say to put Subaru Coolant Conditioner in every time you change the coolant?

I am really worried about this head gasket issue. I read all about it on
the
internet and then went out and bought the Forester anyway, figuring that
Subaru has had plenty of time to fix this problem by now. I'm not really
that
wild about the car, it's just the best station-wagon-like thing I could get
for
the money. The service people at the dealership when I bought the car said
they haven't seen any problems on the '04 and '05 models, but now I'm
thinking that might be because they've been putting in that Coolant
Conditioner
at the factory and whenever the coolant is changed!

Maybe I'll trade it in in 3 years. But what should I get instead?

Laura Watson
 >> Stay informed about: Headgasket Leaking - Lemon Law help? 

Most newer cars get the "cooling system" conditioner from the factory
and advise to replace it each time the coolant is changed. Not unique
to Subaru. HG weeping is very common on some Toyotas and many General
motors engines. Trade or worried about nothing.
wrote in message

 >


  >> I rarely pay someone to work on my car but did have an independent
  >> shop do the HG repair. For me it was the right decision. Shop is
  >> Subie only shop and has been in business for more than 20 yrs.
  >> Shop says they have never had a HG failure on engines with third
  >> generation HG design.
 >
 > If this is true, then why does the owner's manual for my new 2005
 > Forester
 > say to put Subaru Coolant Conditioner in every time you change the
 > coolant?
 >
 > I am really worried about this head gasket issue. I read all about
 > it on the
 > internet and then went out and bought the Forester anyway, figuring
 > that
 > Subaru has had plenty of time to fix this problem by now. I'm not
 > really that
 > wild about the car, it's just the best station-wagon-like thing I
 > could get for
 > the money. The service people at the dealership when I bought the
 > car said
 > they haven't seen any problems on the '04 and '05 models, but now
 > I'm
 > thinking that might be because they've been putting in that Coolant
 > Conditioner
 > at the factory and whenever the coolant is changed!
 >
 > Maybe I'll trade it in in 3 years. But what should I get instead?
 >
 > Laura Watson
 >
 >
 >> Stay informed about: Headgasket Leaking - Lemon Law help? 

RZOLAYVAR.RemoveThis@triad.rr.com wrote:



 >
  >>I rarely pay someone to work on my car but did have an independent shop do
  >>the HG repair. For me it was the right decision. Shop is Subie only shop
  >>and has been in business for more than 20 yrs. Shop says they have never
  >>had a HG failure on engines with third generation HG design.
 >
 >
 > If this is true, then why does the owner's manual for my new 2005 Forester
 > say to put Subaru Coolant Conditioner in every time you change the coolant?
 >
 > I am really worried about this head gasket issue. I read all about it on
 > the
 > internet and then went out and bought the Forester anyway, figuring that
 > Subaru has had plenty of time to fix this problem by now. I'm not really
 > that
 > wild about the car, it's just the best station-wagon-like thing I could get
 > for
 > the money. The service people at the dealership when I bought the car said
 > they haven't seen any problems on the '04 and '05 models, but now I'm
 > thinking that might be because they've been putting in that Coolant
 > Conditioner
 > at the factory and whenever the coolant is changed!

Don't get paranoid about it. My next-door neighbor
runs an independent repair shop and he works on
Subarus. He has *never* seen a bad head gasket. What
you read about on the newsgroup is not representitive
of what an average owner will experience.

The best thing that you can do is check the coolant
level regularly, and make sure that when it is changed,
all the air is purged from the system.

BTW, my '99 Outback has 107,000 miles on it with
nothing more than scheduled maintainance. I intend
to keep it until it has at least 200,000.


 > Maybe I'll trade it in in 3 years. But what should I get instead?

It's a lottery with any new car. Even Mercedes had
a huge recall recently.

 > Laura Watson
 >
 >
 >> Stay informed about: Headgasket Leaking - Lemon Law help?