Driving With Two Brakes

> If you have to make this kind of 'correction', just how
> clueless are you? And please post where this car is likely to driven
> so that I and other readers can avoid it.

I'm pretty clueless. That's why I come here for help, and I appreciate the
assistance I get from the nice people here. But, hey, at least I don't feel
the need to tear people apart with sarcasm, right? Peace to you.
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

GOn Fri, 4 Apr 2008 17:30:56 -0500, "Neil" <nospam DeleteThis @nospam.net> wrote:

>What are the dangers of driving with two brakes? I just found out that when
>my ex-wife took my teenage son's car in to be repaired last week, they said
>there was a leak in the rear wheel cylindar, which was causing brake fluid
>to go onto the brake shoes, causing there to be no rear brakes. She declined
>to have it repaired because of the cost.
>
>How dangerous is it to drive with front brakes only? Seems to me that the
>brakes could lock up or the car could spin or something like that if one has
>to stop suddenly when driving at freeway speeds. Any input is appreciated.
>
>Oh, the car is a VW Golf, about 10 years old.
>
>Thanks!
>

If he's going to keep the car, get it fixed, **ASAP** and keep the car
off the road untill it is repaired. If your ex won't pay for it, pay
for it yourself (ASSuming that your son doesn't have the funds to pay
for the job himself).

IIRC, one of the purposes of dual systems is incase one system fails
while in motion (such as suddenly developing a leak and losing all
fluid on that side) you still have *some* braking available to bring
the car safely to a stop. You say that the rears are not working and
fronts are. Don't wait for the fronts to fail and an accident to
occur. GET IT FIXED!

Oh, and for the love of Allah, pay no mind to what that idiot,
"Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS," said.
--
S&DDAM admits to putting others in danger with its beater:

"Foot pumps are a joke. I had one once and since the piston only moves like
2 inches it took 50 pumps to raise the pressure by one psi. Go with the
hand pumps where the piston moves around 15 inches. One of my tires has
exposed cords and i have to pump it up every week. "

--Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS, 3/6/08
Ref: http://tinyurl.com/yvrmhl
Msg ID: Xns9A59DDA463296riemann1850yahoocom DeleteThis @216.168.3.70
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

On Apr 5, 1:40 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati....DeleteThis@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Ed Pirrero wrote:
> > On Apr 4, 3:42 pm, "Neil" <nos....DeleteThis@nospam.net> wrote:
> > > An additional note re. this. The reason this came to light was because my
> > > son's emergency brake wasn't holding the wheels. He brought it in, asking
> > > them to adjust the emergency brake, and they told him that the reason the
> > > emergency brake wasn't working was because of brake fluid that was leaking
> > > out of the rear cyclinders. (They said that one cyclinder was leaking a
> > > little, and another was leaking a lot.)
>
> > Considering it's a mechanical hand brake mechanism, fluid (or lack
> > thereof) isn't going to do anything, unless both rears are so
> > contaminated the brake shoes won't hold in the drums.
>
> > Seems unlikely.
>
> That's exactly what happens. The friction material loses its friction when
> saturated with brake fluid. It is an oil of sorts after all !

You aren't really this dumb, are you?

Even oil-soaked shoes will provide SOME friction.

Enough to hold the car? I have no idea. Best not to test the
condition empirically, methinks.

E.P.
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

Neil wrote:

> What are the dangers of driving with two brakes? I just found out that when
> my ex-wife took my teenage son's car in to be repaired last week, they said
> there was a leak in the rear wheel cylindar, which was causing brake fluid
> to go onto the brake shoes, causing there to be no rear brakes. She declined
> to have it repaired because of the cost.
>
> How dangerous is it to drive with front brakes only? Seems to me that the
> brakes could lock up or the car could spin or something like that if one has
> to stop suddenly when driving at freeway speeds. Any input is appreciated.
>
> Oh, the car is a VW Golf, about 10 years old.

Well for starters there will be TWO rear wheel cylinders, one one each side.

Do they mean just one side was faulty ?

It's not really hard to fix this as a DIY job quite frankly if you have any
reasonable level of practical skills. The bits won't be that expensive.

Graham
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

Ed Pirrero wrote:

> On Apr 4, 3:42 pm, "Neil" <nos....TakeThisOut@nospam.net> wrote:
> > An additional note re. this. The reason this came to light was because my
> > son's emergency brake wasn't holding the wheels. He brought it in, asking
> > them to adjust the emergency brake, and they told him that the reason the
> > emergency brake wasn't working was because of brake fluid that was leaking
> > out of the rear cyclinders. (They said that one cyclinder was leaking a
> > little, and another was leaking a lot.)
>
> Considering it's a mechanical hand brake mechanism, fluid (or lack
> thereof) isn't going to do anything, unless both rears are so
> contaminated the brake shoes won't hold in the drums.
>
> Seems unlikely.

That's exactly what happens. The friction material loses its friction when
saturated with brake fluid. It is an oil of sorts after all !

Graham
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

Neil wrote:

> I spoke with his mother after speaking to the mechanic and after posting
> here. Apparently, she was unaware that the rear brakes were not working. She
> said, one, the place didn't tell her it was an unsafe situation. And, two,
> she said she thought the emergency brake had a different brake shoe than the
> rear brake. Thus, until I spoke with her, she thought the situation was
> restricted to only the emergency brake, and not the rear brake itself.

Why would you expect the average woman to know how car brakes work ?

Graham
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

> Well, since the failure condition is indicated to the driver via an
> IDIOT LIGHT, there is no need to understand how they work.

Re. idiot light, the complete situation was that the car was leaking brake
fluid. They brought it into the shop and found there was a leak in the brake
line in the front of the car, which they repaired. That stopped the leak and
stopped the light from coming on.

Right now there's no light that's coming on, just some fluid leaking out of
the rear wheel cylinders into the drums. But not enough for the light to go
on.
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

On Apr 5, 10:13 am, Ulf <a... RemoveThis @asdf.com> wrote:
> Ed Pirrero wrote:
> > On Apr 5, 1:40 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati... RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Ed Pirrero wrote:
> >>> On Apr 4, 3:42 pm, "Neil" <nos... RemoveThis @nospam.net> wrote:
> >>>> An additional note re. this. The reason this came to light was because my
> >>>> son's emergency brake wasn't holding the wheels. He brought it in, asking
> >>>> them to adjust the emergency brake, and they told him that the reason the
> >>>> emergency brake wasn't working was because of brake fluid that was leaking
> >>>> out of the rear cyclinders. (They said that one cyclinder was leaking a
> >>>> little, and another was leaking a lot.)
> >>> Considering it's a mechanical hand brake mechanism, fluid (or lack
> >>> thereof) isn't going to do anything, unless both rears are so
> >>> contaminated the brake shoes won't hold in the drums.
> >>> Seems unlikely.
> >> That's exactly what happens. The friction material loses its friction when
> >> saturated with brake fluid. It is an oil of sorts after all !
>
> > You aren't really this dumb, are you?
>
> > Even oil-soaked shoes will provide SOME friction.
>
> > Enough to hold the car? I have no idea. Best not to test the
> > condition empirically, methinks.
>
> Considering many parking brakes are marginal to begin with, leaking
> brake fluid could easily make them next to useless. I ran my Jeep, which
> had a leaking axle seal at the time, through the brake tester at work,
> and on that wheel I had half the brake force compared the the other
> wheel. I know differential oil has different characteristics, but still...

Considering the mass of the Golf, and the quality of the handbrake
system, it's not a given that the handbrake won't work.

E.P.
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

Ed Pirrero wrote:
> On Apr 5, 1:40 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati....RemoveThis@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>> On Apr 4, 3:42 pm, "Neil" <nos....RemoveThis@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> An additional note re. this. The reason this came to light was because my
>>>> son's emergency brake wasn't holding the wheels. He brought it in, asking
>>>> them to adjust the emergency brake, and they told him that the reason the
>>>> emergency brake wasn't working was because of brake fluid that was leaking
>>>> out of the rear cyclinders. (They said that one cyclinder was leaking a
>>>> little, and another was leaking a lot.)
>>> Considering it's a mechanical hand brake mechanism, fluid (or lack
>>> thereof) isn't going to do anything, unless both rears are so
>>> contaminated the brake shoes won't hold in the drums.
>>> Seems unlikely.
>> That's exactly what happens. The friction material loses its friction when
>> saturated with brake fluid. It is an oil of sorts after all !
>
> You aren't really this dumb, are you?
>
> Even oil-soaked shoes will provide SOME friction.
>
> Enough to hold the car? I have no idea. Best not to test the
> condition empirically, methinks.

Considering many parking brakes are marginal to begin with, leaking
brake fluid could easily make them next to useless. I ran my Jeep, which
had a leaking axle seal at the time, through the brake tester at work,
and on that wheel I had half the brake force compared the the other
wheel. I know differential oil has different characteristics, but still...

>
> E.P.
Ulf
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

In article <47F748F6.8A3AA8BD.DeleteThis@hotmail.com>, Eeyore wrote:
>
>
>Ed Pirrero wrote:
>
>> On Apr 4, 3:42 pm, "Neil" <nos....DeleteThis@nospam.net> wrote:
>> > An additional note re. this. The reason this came to light was because my
>> > son's emergency brake wasn't holding the wheels. He brought it in, asking
>> > them to adjust the emergency brake, and they told him that the reason the
>> > emergency brake wasn't working was because of brake fluid that was leaking
>> > out of the rear cyclinders. (They said that one cyclinder was leaking a
>> > little, and another was leaking a lot.)
>>
>> Considering it's a mechanical hand brake mechanism, fluid (or lack
>> thereof) isn't going to do anything, unless both rears are so
>> contaminated the brake shoes won't hold in the drums.
>>
>> Seems unlikely.
>
>That's exactly what happens. The friction material loses its friction when
>saturated with brake fluid. It is an oil of sorts after all !

It would depend on the design of the back plate and drum I would guess.
The wheel cylinder that went on me last year was discovered in part by
'what's that puddle'. The shoes never got any brake fluid on them. It
just went along the back plate through the over lap with the drum and
down to the ground.

I would think it possible for the parking brake to slip because of
contamination, but it would be unlikely IMO... then again the car may
have a drum brake design that any leaking brake fluid goes on to the
shoes.
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

"Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rZWdnfypsovaQWvanZ2dnUVZ_qLinZ2d@comcast.com...
> In article <ft6lse0130f DeleteThis @news2.newsguy.com>, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>Brent P wrote:
>>> In article <mJAJj.177$iK6.70@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, Neil wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The price they quoted was $110, but I don't know what that includes.
>>>
>>>
>>> It should include two wheel cylinders and at least relined shoes. Given
>>> the price of wheel cylinders and brake shoes for my old drum braked car
>>> that sounds like a decent price. It's nearly all parts unless 10 year
>>> old VW parts are ALOT cheaper than for a 35 year old ford.
>>>
>>
>>Maintenance parts are really cheap for older watercooled VW's. About
>>the only car I've ever worked on that was cheaper was an old MoPar
>>A-body. (several of them, mostly a '67 Dart and a '69 Valiant. I miss
>>the Valiant, too bad the owner wasn't speaking to me when she decided to
>>sell it...)
>
> I saw your price list there... the rear wheel cylinder I bought for the
> mav last year cost me around $40 at Napa.... Even more than a decade ago
> when I replaced the front ones they cost me $35 each or so....
>
>

Per the message I post in a new thread ("Driving With Two Brakes - Part
Two"), it was actually $130 they quoted, and it was ONLY for the wheel
cylinders. They say they're not going to replace the brake shoes, but only
clean them (even though there's brake fluid on the outside of the brake
cylinder).
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes