Driving With Two Brakes

Correction to the below. The rear brakes are drum brakes, not brake shoes.

"Neil" <nospam RemoveThis @nospam.net> wrote in message
news:R%xJj.141$%41.48@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
> What are the dangers of driving with two brakes? I just found out that
> when my ex-wife took my teenage son's car in to be repaired last week,
> they said there was a leak in the rear wheel cylindar, which was causing
> brake fluid to go onto the brake shoes, causing there to be no rear
> brakes. She declined to have it repaired because of the cost.
>
> How dangerous is it to drive with front brakes only? Seems to me that the
> brakes could lock up or the car could spin or something like that if one
> has to stop suddenly when driving at freeway speeds. Any input is
> appreciated.
>
> Oh, the car is a VW Golf, about 10 years old.
>
> Thanks!
>
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

In article <R%xJj.141$%41.48@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>, Neil wrote:
>What are the dangers of driving with two brakes? I just found out that when
>my ex-wife took my teenage son's car in to be repaired last week, they said
>there was a leak in the rear wheel cylindar, which was causing brake fluid
>to go onto the brake shoes, causing there to be no rear brakes. She declined
>to have it repaired because of the cost.
>
>How dangerous is it to drive with front brakes only? Seems to me that the
>brakes could lock up or the car could spin or something like that if one has
>to stop suddenly when driving at freeway speeds. Any input is appreciated.

IMO it's idiotic. At some point the condition may become bad enough that
the pedal goes to the floor when braking. Sure, as a split system it's
possible to pump and still have front brakes.

If a shop is charging 'too much' just replace it yourself. It's not that
hard to replace a wheel cylinder and shoes. It will require learning how
to bleed brakes (not that hard) and maybe a couple special drum brake
tools to make the job easier. (not that one can't do it with regular
tools, it's just not as easy)
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

An additional note re. this. The reason this came to light was because my
son's emergency brake wasn't holding the wheels. He brought it in, asking
them to adjust the emergency brake, and they told him that the reason the
emergency brake wasn't working was because of brake fluid that was leaking
out of the rear cyclinders. (They said that one cyclinder was leaking a
little, and another was leaking a lot.)


"Neil" <nospam RemoveThis @nospam.net> wrote in message
news:R%xJj.141$%41.48@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
> What are the dangers of driving with two brakes? I just found out that
> when my ex-wife took my teenage son's car in to be repaired last week,
> they said there was a leak in the rear wheel cylindar, which was causing
> brake fluid to go onto the brake shoes, causing there to be no rear
> brakes. She declined to have it repaired because of the cost.
>
> How dangerous is it to drive with front brakes only? Seems to me that the
> brakes could lock up or the car could spin or something like that if one
> has to stop suddenly when driving at freeway speeds. Any input is
> appreciated.
>
> Oh, the car is a VW Golf, about 10 years old.
>
> Thanks!
>
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

On Apr 4, 3:42 pm, "Neil" <nos... RemoveThis @nospam.net> wrote:
> An additional note re. this. The reason this came to light was because my
> son's emergency brake wasn't holding the wheels. He brought it in, asking
> them to adjust the emergency brake, and they told him that the reason the
> emergency brake wasn't working was because of brake fluid that was leaking
> out of the rear cyclinders. (They said that one cyclinder was leaking a
> little, and another was leaking a lot.)

Considering it's a mechanical hand brake mechanism, fluid (or lack
thereof) isn't going to do anything, unless both rears are so
contaminated the brake shoes won't hold in the drums.

Seems unlikely.

Cost to fix? What's a running car worth? How much would it cost to
replace the car with one that has working brakes? And for the love of
all that's holy, don't let him drive the thing on public roads in that
condition - the rest of us would rather get home alive. Him driving
the car is not just a danger to him, but to others. Which puts a
point on this query - what kind of parent lets their kid drive around
in a car where the primary safety system is not operating correctly???

E.P.
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

On Apr 4, 4:30 pm, "Neil" <nos....DeleteThis@nospam.net> wrote:
> What are the dangers of driving with two brakes? I just found out that when
> my ex-wife took my teenage son's car in to be repaired last week, they said
> there was a leak in the rear wheel cylindar, which was causing brake fluid
> to go onto the brake shoes, causing there to be no rear brakes. She declined
> to have it repaired because of the cost.
>
> How dangerous is it to drive with front brakes only? Seems to me that the
> brakes could lock up or the car could spin or something like that if one has
> to stop suddenly when driving at freeway speeds. Any input is appreciated.
>
> Oh, the car is a VW Golf, about 10 years old.
>
> Thanks!

If you drive slow and supplement the front brakes with transmission
braking, you'll be fine - as long as the front brakes don't spring a
leak too. Big thing is drive slow.
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

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 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

> Considering it's a mechanical hand brake mechanism, fluid (or lack
> thereof) isn't going to do anything, unless both rears are so
> contaminated the brake shoes won't hold in the drums.
>
> Seems unlikely.
>

I guess that was the impression that they gave -- that there was fluid on
the shoes, and, therefore, neither the emergency brake nor the rear brakes
(which, apparently, share the same shoes) were functioning because they
couldn't grip the drums.

So, if that's the case, that brake fluid on the rear shoes wouldn't stop the
emergency brake from working; and, therefore, there's a different cause of
the problem with the emergency brake; is it possible that these people are
just yanking our chain, and there's nothing wrong with the rear brakes at
all? I guess I should have someone else look at them.

> Cost to fix? What's a running car worth? How much would it cost to
> replace the car with one that has working brakes? And for the love of
> all that's holy, don't let him drive the thing on public roads in that
> condition - the rest of us would rather get home alive. Him driving
> the car is not just a danger to him, but to others. Which puts a
> point on this query - what kind of parent lets their kid drive around
> in a car where the primary safety system is not operating correctly???

I spoke with his mother after speaking to the mechanic and after posting
here. Apparently, she was unaware that the rear brakes were not working. She
said, one, the place didn't tell her it was an unsafe situation. And, two,
she said she thought the emergency brake had a different brake shoe than the
rear brake. Thus, until I spoke with her, she thought the situation was
restricted to only the emergency brake, and not the rear brake itself.

I was going to post another question, asking if it was OK to allow him to
drive it for a week or two until she could get the money to fix it, since
the front brakes are working, and he hasn't noticed any problem with
stopping. Your above statement seems to answer that question, though.

Thanks,

Neil
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

> Driving without all the brakes working properly is like holding a
> loaded and cocked gun to your head and playing with the trigger. A
> safe driver would take the car home and park it as soon as a leak was
> found. Then they would slowly drive it to a repair shop. Otherwise
> they would not use the vehicle. Apparently you are not a safe driver.
> If you want to commit suicide, feel free, but why take another life
> with you?
>
> Brakes are one of the easier things to fix on a car. Go spend the $20
> to buy an auto repair manual, spend another $50 to $100 on brake shoes
> and cylinders, and fix it yourself. I'm sure if you ask around the
> neighborhood there's some guy who is handy with cars who would help
> you in trade for a good dinner. Otherwise, sell your computer to help
> pay to have a mechanic do the job for you. At least no lives will be
> lost.
>
> You can also get drawings and repair info on autozone.com. Click on
> "Repair Info" on the left. Then click on "Vehicle repair guides".
> Enter the year make and model of your car, click on "brakes" and you
> can get all sorts of useful help and drawings.
>
> If you insist on driving without proper brakes, please tell all of us
> what city and state you live, and describe your vehicle so we can all
> avoid you.
>

Well, since I just found out about the situation today, I think you can ease
up a bit. And, not being familiar with how cars worked, I asked here, rather
than just ignoring the situation. So ease up on the personal attacks, OK?
Unless you feel the need to attack people, in which case nothing I say will
make a difference anyway.
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

Letterman made the point here:

> Brakes are one of the easier things to fix on a car. Go spend the $20
> to buy an auto repair manual, spend another $50 to $100 on brake shoes
> and cylinders, and fix it yourself.

The car repair shop wanted $110 to make the repair. If the above is the
approximate cost of the parts, and if they charge something like $70/hr for
labor, then that tells me that there's no way they were planning on
replacing the shoes, but only the cylinders. Which raises one of two
possibilities:

Either: 1) This shop doesn't know what they're doing, since they weren't
going to replace the shoes.

Or: 2) The amount leaking on the shoes is so minimal that they didn't feel
the shoes needed to be replaced (which, if that were the case, raises the
question of whether their assertion that the emergency brake wasn't working
because of fluid leaking onto the brakes was correct in the first place).

Either way, very curious that the total cost was only $110.
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

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 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 17:30:56 -0500, "Neil" <nospam RemoveThis @nospam.net> wrote:

>What are the dangers of driving with two brakes? I just found out that when
>my ex-wife took my teenage son's car in to be repaired last week, they said
>there was a leak in the rear wheel cylindar, which was causing brake fluid
>to go onto the brake shoes, causing there to be no rear brakes. She declined
>to have it repaired because of the cost.
>
>How dangerous is it to drive with front brakes only? Seems to me that the
>brakes could lock up or the car could spin or something like that if one has
>to stop suddenly when driving at freeway speeds. Any input is appreciated.
>
>Oh, the car is a VW Golf, about 10 years old.


About 60% braking on front and 40% on the rear. As in another post,
fluid on the shoes may grab or may slip depending on how much crud and
water get in there. In the car event the car be involved in an
accident, you may be liable for all costs if the brake's precondition
come to light. Not fixing faulty brakes is just plain foolish.

P

Licenced Automotive Mechanic (red seal)
Licenced Heavy Equipment Mechanic (red seal)
Former automotive instructor
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

Neil wrote:
> Letterman made the point here:
>
>> Brakes are one of the easier things to fix on a car. Go spend the $20
>> to buy an auto repair manual, spend another $50 to $100 on brake shoes
>> and cylinders, and fix it yourself.
>
> The car repair shop wanted $110 to make the repair. If the above is the
> approximate cost of the parts, and if they charge something like $70/hr for
> labor, then that tells me that there's no way they were planning on
> replacing the shoes, but only the cylinders. Which raises one of two
> possibilities:
>
> Either: 1) This shop doesn't know what they're doing, since they weren't
> going to replace the shoes.
>
> Or: 2) The amount leaking on the shoes is so minimal that they didn't feel
> the shoes needed to be replaced (which, if that were the case, raises the
> question of whether their assertion that the emergency brake wasn't working
> because of fluid leaking onto the brakes was correct in the first place).
>
> Either way, very curious that the total cost was only $110.
>
>

Neil,

Get a second opinion, something doesn't sound quite right.

In any case if the rear brakes really aren't working you DON'T want your
son or anyone else driving the thing until it's fixed. I've driven cars
and had the brakes go out and while it's VERY exciting it's not a ride I
recommend to anyone, and while I was lucky it can come out VERY badly.

As a wise man once said, "If you can't stop, don't go".

Jeff DeWitt
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes 

>
> Get a second opinion, something doesn't sound quite right.
>
> In any case if the rear brakes really aren't working you DON'T want your
> son or anyone else driving the thing until it's fixed. I've driven cars
> and had the brakes go out and while it's VERY exciting it's not a ride I
> recommend to anyone, and while I was lucky it can come out VERY badly.
>
> As a wise man once said, "If you can't stop, don't go".
>
> Jeff DeWitt

Thanks, Jeff. Good advice.
 >> Stay informed about: Driving With Two Brakes