Diagnosis please! Overheating, coolant leak, white smoke and

"CDR" <colinrenfrew.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d9feccb1-49c9-4ecf-96fc-af00b41b0225@d70g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> ('99 323, 100k miles) Ok, so I've had a slow coolant leak issue for
> months now, took it to 3 different BMW independent specialists, and it
> is still giving me trouble. The overheating as well as the coolant
> tank and check engine light coming on and off every second day is
> frustrating to say the least. To summarise:
>
> - slow coolant leak - mechanic couldn't find leak but replaced one old
> and cracked hose. No difference.
> - 3 weeks ago the car stopped blowing hot air from the air con,
> overheated (just into the red before I switched off), and the check
> engine light came on. Mechanic identified broken water pump and
> replaced everything in the coolant/radiator system except the radiator
> itself (inspected and OK). Engine codes pulled as coolant leak and
> misfires on 3 cylinders. No diagnosis at the time on these.
> - today, same thing as 3 weeks ago, with the addition of a lot of
> white smoke coming from the exhaust when I started it up this morning
> (for about 5 minutes)! Car started to overheat after about 10 mins on
> open road.
> - also, the engine light and coolant tank light go on and off every so
> often. Sometimes the car idles very rough the first time I turn the
> engine, but then is ok if I restart.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Colin
>

Sure sounds like a blown head gasket -- possibly a warped head by now.
>
>
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Diagnosis please! Overheating, coolant leak, white smoke and 

Roger that.
-----
Sure sounds like a blown head gasket -- possibly a warped head by now.
-----

Bill in Omaha
'86 535i
 >> Stay informed about: Diagnosis please! Overheating, coolant leak, white smoke and 

In article
<d9feccb1-49c9-4ecf-96fc-af00b41b0225 DeleteThis @d70g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
CDR <colinrenfrew DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> ('99 323, 100k miles) Ok, so I've had a slow coolant leak issue for
> months now, took it to 3 different BMW independent specialists, and it
> is still giving me trouble. The overheating as well as the coolant
> tank and check engine light coming on and off every second day is
> frustrating to say the least. To summarise:

> - slow coolant leak - mechanic couldn't find leak but replaced one old
> and cracked hose. No difference.
> - 3 weeks ago the car stopped blowing hot air from the air con,
> overheated (just into the red before I switched off), and the check
> engine light came on. Mechanic identified broken water pump and
> replaced everything in the coolant/radiator system except the radiator
> itself (inspected and OK). Engine codes pulled as coolant leak and
> misfires on 3 cylinders. No diagnosis at the time on these.
> - today, same thing as 3 weeks ago, with the addition of a lot of
> white smoke coming from the exhaust when I started it up this morning
> (for about 5 minutes)! Car started to overheat after about 10 mins on
> open road.
> - also, the engine light and coolant tank light go on and off every so
> often. Sometimes the car idles very rough the first time I turn the
> engine, but then is ok if I restart.

The best way to find a leak is to add dye to the coolant and pressurize
the system cold. A small leak will often evaporate with a hot engine.
Continuing using the car with a faulty cooling system is likely to result
in head gasket problems and even a warped head. You've got an aluminium
alloy engine - not some old cast iron donk - and it needs treating with
respect.

--
*Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines *

Dave Plowman dave DeleteThis @davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
 >> Stay informed about: Diagnosis please! Overheating, coolant leak, white smoke and 

"CDR" <colinrenfrew.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d9feccb1-49c9-4ecf-96fc-af00b41b0225@d70g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> ('99 323, 100k miles) Ok, so I've had a slow coolant leak issue for
> months now, took it to 3 different BMW independent specialists, and it
> is still giving me trouble. The overheating as well as the coolant
> tank and check engine light coming on and off every second day is
> frustrating to say the least. To summarise:
>
> - slow coolant leak - mechanic couldn't find leak but replaced one old
> and cracked hose. No difference.
> - 3 weeks ago the car stopped blowing hot air from the air con,
> overheated (just into the red before I switched off), and the check
> engine light came on. Mechanic identified broken water pump and
> replaced everything in the coolant/radiator system except the radiator
> itself (inspected and OK). Engine codes pulled as coolant leak and
> misfires on 3 cylinders. No diagnosis at the time on these.
> - today, same thing as 3 weeks ago, with the addition of a lot of
> white smoke coming from the exhaust when I started it up this morning
> (for about 5 minutes)! Car started to overheat after about 10 mins on
> open road.
> - also, the engine light and coolant tank light go on and off every so
> often. Sometimes the car idles very rough the first time I turn the
> engine, but then is ok if I restart.
>
> Any thoughts?
>

Bad news.

One of the problems that plagues the inline six is a cracked head,
especially as a result of overheating. The water jacket/galley (tunnels that
coolant flows through) cracks in the area of the #3 cylinder exhaust valve.

I do not think the smoke (steam) on start-up is significant, it is common
during cold weather and has almost as much to do with outside variables as
with variables inside the engine.

The rough running at idle can be caused by coolant, but it should smooth out
reasonably quickly -- a couple of minutes seems reasonable. Depending on how
badly your head is cracked, your car can overheat easily. Mine did not over
heat at all, but one night (just by chance) the motor stopped while the
exhaust valve was open. Coolant drained into the cylinder, and locked the
engine when I attemped to start it. I pulled the plugs, and a quantity of
coolant squirted out. After that, the motor ran fine. My car used coolant
very slowly, but ran okay and did not over heat. If it did not hydro-lock,
I'd not have known there was a problem.
 >> Stay informed about: Diagnosis please! Overheating, coolant leak, white smoke and 

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave RemoveThis @davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4f5db071eedave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article
> <d9feccb1-49c9-4ecf-96fc-af00b41b0225 RemoveThis @d70g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
> CDR <colinrenfrew RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>> ('99 323, 100k miles) Ok, so I've had a slow coolant leak issue for
>> months now, took it to 3 different BMW independent specialists, and it
>> is still giving me trouble. The overheating as well as the coolant
>> tank and check engine light coming on and off every second day is
>> frustrating to say the least. To summarise:
>
>> - slow coolant leak - mechanic couldn't find leak but replaced one old
>> and cracked hose. No difference.
>> - 3 weeks ago the car stopped blowing hot air from the air con,
>> overheated (just into the red before I switched off), and the check
>> engine light came on. Mechanic identified broken water pump and
>> replaced everything in the coolant/radiator system except the radiator
>> itself (inspected and OK). Engine codes pulled as coolant leak and
>> misfires on 3 cylinders. No diagnosis at the time on these.
>> - today, same thing as 3 weeks ago, with the addition of a lot of
>> white smoke coming from the exhaust when I started it up this morning
>> (for about 5 minutes)! Car started to overheat after about 10 mins on
>> open road.
>> - also, the engine light and coolant tank light go on and off every so
>> often. Sometimes the car idles very rough the first time I turn the
>> engine, but then is ok if I restart.
>
> The best way to find a leak is to add dye to the coolant and pressurize
> the system cold. A small leak will often evaporate with a hot engine.
> Continuing using the car with a faulty cooling system is likely to result
> in head gasket problems and even a warped head. You've got an aluminium
> alloy engine - not some old cast iron donk - and it needs treating with
> respect.
>



An aluminum head, but the block is cast iron. Well, that's how my M50 motor
is built, I'm not certain of the M52 but I think it's the same.
 >> Stay informed about: Diagnosis please! Overheating, coolant leak, white smoke and 

Jeff Strickland wrote:

>An aluminum head, but the block is cast iron. Well, that's how my M50 motor
>is built, I'm not certain of the M52 but I think it's the same.

Wrong, as usual, Jeffy cretin.
 >> Stay informed about: Diagnosis please! Overheating, coolant leak, white smoke and 

"CDR" <colinrenfrew.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:045a9b7f-451b-4ac2-a951-106c795fe8d1@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Thanks for all the inputs.
>
> "...blown head gasket..."
>
> That's what I was afraid of.
>
> Ball-park, how much can I expect to have to pay (U.S.) to get it
> repaired (at a very good independent)?
>

Well, the labor for a head gasket and the labor for a head are the same,
unless your new head is stripped, then you have more labor to transplant the
valve train from the old head to the new one. I do not recall what I paid.



> Also, I had it go through a full inspection II service 3 months ago.
> Should this have been noticed then?
>

I don't know of any reason why a blown head gasket would be discovered on a
Service Interval II. If it was going to be discovered, this is when. But
there is no reason to infer you were treated badly because it was not
caught.
 >> Stay informed about: Diagnosis please! Overheating, coolant leak, white smoke and 

"Bill" <wechorba.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ERzgj.28883$R92.12041@newsfe16.phx...
> Roger that.
> -----
> Sure sounds like a blown head gasket -- possibly a warped head by now.
> -----
>
> Bill in Omaha
> '86 535i
>
>

Definitely, possibly a crack in the head or block as well?

All the symptoms are classic: -

Coolant loss - water is leaking inside the engine.
Overheating - exhaust gas in crankcase, coolant low or not getting
everywhere
white smoke - water in cylinders
misfires - reduced compression, water etc.
lights - the engine knows that it is toast (well steamed pudding anyway).

expensive to fix.

Whatever the original leak mechanism, if you ran with low coolant or poor
circulation you probably caused all the other problems
 >> Stay informed about: Diagnosis please! Overheating, coolant leak, white smoke and 

"R. Mark Clayton" <nospamclayton.DeleteThis@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:X--dnf9llJY--h7anZ2dnUVZ8v-dnZ2d@bt.com...

"Bill" <wechorba.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ERzgj.28883$R92.12041@newsfe16.phx...
> Roger that.
> -----
> Sure sounds like a blown head gasket -- possibly a warped head by now.
> -----
>
> Bill in Omaha
> '86 535i
>
>

Definitely, possibly a crack in the head or block as well?

All the symptoms are classic: -

Coolant loss - water is leaking inside the engine.
Overheating - exhaust gas in crankcase, coolant low or not getting
everywhere
white smoke - water in cylinders
misfires - reduced compression, water etc.
lights - the engine knows that it is toast (well steamed pudding anyway).

expensive to fix.

Whatever the original leak mechanism, if you ran with low coolant or poor
circulation you probably caused all the other problems
-----

Let's not forget running coolant in the oil. It WILL eat the connecting rod
bearing shells. I've seen the results. If you get lucky there, the crank
will be smooth and not need replacing as well. The trick is that you won't
know the full damage until it's pulled apart. The bright side is that you
may not need very extensive or expensive work (just time-consuming if you do
it), you'll get intimate knowledge of the engine and satisfaction that it's
nearly new when you're done. The bad side is pretty obvious.

Bill in Omaha
'86 535i
 >> Stay informed about: Diagnosis please! Overheating, coolant leak, white smoke and 

I was told anywhere from $1200 (very optimistic) to $2000 (more realistic)
by my independent BMW shop.

--


"CDR" <colinrenfrew.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:045a9b7f-451b-4ac2-a951-106c795fe8d1@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Thanks for all the inputs.
>
> "...blown head gasket..."
>
> That's what I was afraid of.
>
> Ball-park, how much can I expect to have to pay (U.S.) to get it
> repaired (at a very good independent)?
>
> Also, I had it go through a full inspection II service 3 months ago.
> Should this have been noticed then?
>
> Thanks,
> Colin
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Diagnosis please! Overheating, coolant leak, white smoke and 

"Bill" <wechorba.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:XDMgj.27611$Gr4.5247@newsfe08.phx...
>
> "R. Mark Clayton" <nospamclayton.DeleteThis@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:X--dnf9llJY--h7anZ2dnUVZ8v-dnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Bill" <wechorba.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ERzgj.28883$R92.12041@newsfe16.phx...
>> Roger that.
>> -----
>> Sure sounds like a blown head gasket -- possibly a warped head by now.
>> -----
>>
>> Bill in Omaha
>> '86 535i
>>
>>
>
> Definitely, possibly a crack in the head or block as well?
>
> All the symptoms are classic: -

SNIP

>
> Let's not forget running coolant in the oil. It WILL eat the connecting
> rod
> bearing shells. I've seen the results. If you get lucky there, the crank
> will be smooth and not need replacing as well. The trick is that you won't
> know the full damage until it's pulled apart. The bright side is that you
> may not need very extensive or expensive work (just time-consuming if you
> do
> it), you'll get intimate knowledge of the engine and satisfaction that
> it's
> nearly new when you're done. The bad side is pretty obvious.
>
> Bill in Omaha
> '86 535i
>
>

Please don't take up medicine, your bedside manner...

'In only a few years you will get old, sicken and die'
 >> Stay informed about: Diagnosis please! Overheating, coolant leak, white smoke and 

"R. Mark Clayton" <nospamclayton.RemoveThis@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:zsidnUCnAaC8mBnanZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@bt.com...

"Bill" <wechorba.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:XDMgj.27611$Gr4.5247@newsfe08.phx...
>
> "R. Mark Clayton" <nospamclayton.RemoveThis@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:X--dnf9llJY--h7anZ2dnUVZ8v-dnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Bill" <wechorba.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ERzgj.28883$R92.12041@newsfe16.phx...
>> Roger that.
>> -----
>> Sure sounds like a blown head gasket -- possibly a warped head by now.
>> -----
>>
>> Bill in Omaha
>> '86 535i
>>
>>
>
> Definitely, possibly a crack in the head or block as well?
>
> All the symptoms are classic: -

SNIP

>
> Let's not forget running coolant in the oil. It WILL eat the connecting
> rod
> bearing shells. I've seen the results. If you get lucky there, the crank
> will be smooth and not need replacing as well. The trick is that you won't
> know the full damage until it's pulled apart. The bright side is that you
> may not need very extensive or expensive work (just time-consuming if you
> do
> it), you'll get intimate knowledge of the engine and satisfaction that
> it's
> nearly new when you're done. The bad side is pretty obvious.
>
> Bill in Omaha
> '86 535i
>
>

Please don't take up medicine, your bedside manner...

'In only a few years you will get old, sicken and die'
-----

Is it the facts or the manner they are presented?
Last time I checked, the world isn't a sugar-coated playground.
Please.
 >> Stay informed about: Diagnosis please! Overheating, coolant leak, white smoke and