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External
Since: Oct 10, 2005
Posts: 10
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:21 pm
Post subject: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed
Archived from groups: rec>autos>driving, others (more info?)
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With Congressional hearings starting Tuesday, everyone wonders what pitch
the Detroit automakers will use to try to convince Congress - and more
importantly, the public - that spending taxpayer money will rescue them.
Bits and pieces have leaked, and its time to start evaluating them.
Rick Wagoner, GM's CEO, has spent most of his career in finance related
functions, after having started as an analyst in GM's treasurer's office.
He will offer expert testimony on GM's finances. "There should be more
digits in these numbers" is one of his planned lines.
But, with a known lack of product experience, it is expected that Congress
will instead try to grill him mercilessly on car features and manufacturing
issues. During a crash course over the weekend, Wagoner learned to recite
all GM's current brand names in less than 60 seconds (his tendency to
include Oldsmobile was a particular stumbling block).
Ford's Alan Mulally is probably the best prepared of the three. With a
engineering background (at Boeing) he is likely to be able to impress
Congress that he knows how to lead a manufacturing company.
Yet he can't speak too highly of Ford products lest he be considered
dishonest. Before being appointed Ford CEO, he was quoted as saying his
personal Lexus was the best car in the world.
Chrysler CEO Robert Nardelli may have the least to say. His opening
statement, based on his experience at The Home Depot, is reported to be
simply "We can do it, you can help". |
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External
Since: Jun 29, 2005
Posts: 578
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Comments4u" <comments4u RemoveThis @nospam.mindspring.com.invalid> wrote in
message news:1ivlpckwmak4r.1cn1x8nnnk5ry.dlg@40tude.net...
> Yet he can't speak too highly of Ford products lest he be considered
> dishonest. Before being appointed Ford CEO, he was quoted as saying
> his
> personal Lexus was the best car in the world.
Doesn't everyone think the car they are driving is the best car in the
world "for them, all things considered?" If there were no constraints,
I am sure my current car would not be the best car for me, but given
my real world constraints, I bought the car because it was the best
one that met my requirements/constraints/desires at that time. I doubt
Mulally any more knew whether a Lexus was the best car in the world or
not than I do, but he certainly could have thought it was the best car
for him as far as he knew. I assume he knows better now:) When he was
running Boeing, I can't imagine him riding around in a Lexus and
saying, well it is a good car, but I was a dope for spending so much
for a pimped out Toyota. What high power, over paid CEO would ever
admit he bought anything but the best - especially when it was a
product produced in a foreign country?
Ed |
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External
Since: Sep 29, 2008
Posts: 150
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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At nearly $1,000,000 one would think so, but I think he said ONE of the best
> Yet he can't speak too highly of Ford products lest he be considered
> dishonest. Before being appointed Ford CEO, he was quoted as saying his
> personal Lexus was the best car in the world.
>
> >> Stay informed about: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed |
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External
Since: Jun 06, 2007
Posts: 34
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:25 am
Post subject: Re: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <49343ee8$1@kcnews01>,
"C. E. White" <cewhite3.RemoveThis@removemindspring.com> wrote:
> "Comments4u" <comments4u.RemoveThis@nospam.mindspring.com.invalid> wrote in
> message news:1ivlpckwmak4r.1cn1x8nnnk5ry.dlg@40tude.net...
>
> > Yet he can't speak too highly of Ford products lest he be considered
> > dishonest. Before being appointed Ford CEO, he was quoted as saying
> > his
> > personal Lexus was the best car in the world.
>
> Doesn't everyone think the car they are driving is the best car in the
> world "for them, all things considered?" If there were no constraints,
> I am sure my current car would not be the best car for me, but given
> my real world constraints, I bought the car because it was the best
> one that met my requirements/constraints/desires at that time. I doubt
> Mulally any more knew whether a Lexus was the best car in the world or
> not than I do, but he certainly could have thought it was the best car
> for him as far as he knew. I assume he knows better now:) When he was
> running Boeing, I can't imagine him riding around in a Lexus and
> saying, well it is a good car, but I was a dope for spending so much
> for a pimped out Toyota. What high power, over paid CEO would ever
> admit he bought anything but the best - especially when it was a
> product produced in a foreign country?
>
Seeing the current Lexus E350 ads amuses me.
It looks and is so similar to my grey 300M. Under the Lexus only gains
on more recent VVT, 6 SP auto and more air bags.
Toyota copies very well as do a few other "foreign" cars.
Perhaps the smart tasteful car stylists, that seem to be absent from
recent Chrysler car body designs, were hired by this competition. >> Stay informed about: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed |
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External
Since: Nov 18, 2005
Posts: 23
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:48 am
Post subject: Re: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 2, 1:25 am, Josh S <J....DeleteThis@clean.spam> wrote:
> In article <49343ee8$1@kcnews01>,
> "C. E. White" <cewhi....DeleteThis@removemindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Comments4u" <comment....DeleteThis@nospam.mindspring.com.invalid> wrote in
> > messagenews:1ivlpckwmak4r.1cn1x8nnnk5ry.dlg@40tude.net...
>
> > > Yet he can't speak too highly of Ford products lest he be considered
> > > dishonest. Before being appointed Ford CEO, he was quoted as saying
> > > his
> > > personal Lexus was the best car in the world.
>
> > Doesn't everyone think the car they are driving is the best car in the
> > world "for them, all things considered?" If there were no constraints,
> > I am sure my current car would not be the best car for me, but given
> > my real world constraints, I bought the car because it was the best
> > one that met my requirements/constraints/desires at that time. I doubt
> > Mulally any more knew whether a Lexus was the best car in the world or
> > not than I do, but he certainly could have thought it was the best car
> > for him as far as he knew. I assume he knows better now:) When he was
> > running Boeing, I can't imagine him riding around in a Lexus and
> > saying, well it is a good car, but I was a dope for spending so much
> > for a pimped out Toyota. What high power, over paid CEO would ever
> > admit he bought anything but the best - especially when it was a
> > product produced in a foreign country?
>
> Seeing the current Lexus E350 ads amuses me.
> It looks and is so similar to my grey 300M. Under the Lexus only gains
> on more recent VVT, 6 SP auto and more air bags.
>
> Toyota copies very well as do a few other "foreign" cars.
> Perhaps the smart tasteful car stylists, that seem to be absent from
> recent Chrysler car body designs, were hired by this competition.
The biggest example is "Cab Forward" stuff which is the industry
standard now!
I wish the people who say bad stuff about American Cars would actually
go and look some. >> Stay informed about: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed |
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External
Since: May 15, 2007
Posts: 62
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 3, 1:48 pm, "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3... RemoveThis @msn.com> wrote:
> On Dec 2, 1:25 am, Josh S <J... RemoveThis @clean.spam> wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article <49343ee8$1@kcnews01>,
> > "C. E. White" <cewhi... RemoveThis @removemindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Comments4u" <comment... RemoveThis @nospam.mindspring.com.invalid> wrote in
> > > messagenews:1ivlpckwmak4r.1cn1x8nnnk5ry.dlg@40tude.net...
>
> > > > Yet he can't speak too highly of Ford products lest he be considered
> > > > dishonest. Before being appointed Ford CEO, he was quoted as saying
> > > > his
> > > > personal Lexus was the best car in the world.
>
> > > Doesn't everyone think the car they are driving is the best car in the
> > > world "for them, all things considered?" If there were no constraints,
> > > I am sure my current car would not be the best car for me, but given
> > > my real world constraints, I bought the car because it was the best
> > > one that met my requirements/constraints/desires at that time. I doubt
> > > Mulally any more knew whether a Lexus was the best car in the world or
> > > not than I do, but he certainly could have thought it was the best car
> > > for him as far as he knew. I assume he knows better now:) When he was
> > > running Boeing, I can't imagine him riding around in a Lexus and
> > > saying, well it is a good car, but I was a dope for spending so much
> > > for a pimped out Toyota. What high power, over paid CEO would ever
> > > admit he bought anything but the best - especially when it was a
> > > product produced in a foreign country?
>
> > Seeing the current Lexus E350 ads amuses me.
> > It looks and is so similar to my grey 300M. Under the Lexus only gains
> > on more recent VVT, 6 SP auto and more air bags.
>
> > Toyota copies very well as do a few other "foreign" cars.
> > Perhaps the smart tasteful car stylists, that seem to be absent from
> > recent Chrysler car body designs, were hired by this competition.
>
> The biggest example is "Cab Forward" stuff which is the industry
> standard now!
Which is why Chrysler went away from it. If you want to distinguish
yourself, and everybody else is copying your design, you need a new
design.
>
> I wish the people who say bad stuff about American Cars would actually
> go and look some.
The problems:
1. Reliability for GM and Chrysler is still subpar, on average. Only
Ford seems to be in a league with Honda and Toyota.
2. Dependence on archaic 4-speed automatics, which saps power and fuel
economy.
3. Skimping on the details, like too many hard surfaces in the
interior. And just cheap interiors, especially Chrysler mid-size and
small cars and SUVs.
4. Engines which aren't as smooth or as quiet as those from Honda and
Toyota. Or as powerful. Come on, Chrysler, Nissan gets 305 hp from a
3.5 L V6; you get 250. Honda gets 190 hp from a 2.4 L 4; you get 178
hp from a 2.7 L V6. >> Stay informed about: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed |
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External
Since: Dec 04, 2008
Posts: 9
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2008-12-04, Lloyd <lparker RemoveThis @emory.edu> wrote:
> 2. Dependence on archaic 4-speed automatics, which saps power and fuel
> economy.
This is how they pay the UAW workers.
> 3. Skimping on the details, like too many hard surfaces in the
> interior. And just cheap interiors, especially Chrysler mid-size and
> small cars and SUVs.
This is how they pay the UAW workers.
> 4. Engines which aren't as smooth or as quiet as those from Honda and
> Toyota. Or as powerful. Come on, Chrysler, Nissan gets 305 hp from a
> 3.5 L V6; you get 250. Honda gets 190 hp from a 2.4 L 4; you get 178
> hp from a 2.7 L V6.
This is how they pay the UAW workers.
A vehicle will only fetch X on the market. If you pay a higher labor
rate you have to cut materials and time. Lesser interior materials save
money. Specific horsepower is a function of cost in manufacturing
processes and material. using particular designs longer cuts tooling and
development costs making up for high cost labor. unflexible labor also
forces one to stick with present designs because the manufacturing side
can't handle new processes or new automation.
The UAW, as a classic old-school union fights change and has an
artifically high cost of labor. To think this doesn't show up in the
product is nonsense. They could make all the executives work for a
dollar a year and it won't fix these problems. Well it might let them
upgrade the dash pad in every car... maybe the carpet too, but that's
about it, the overall problems still exist. >> Stay informed about: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed |
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External
Since: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 17
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 20:55:38 +0000 (UTC), Brent
<tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote Re Re: Detroit Rescue Plans
Revealed:
>The UAW, as a classic old-school union fights change and has an
>artifically high cost of labor. To think this doesn't show up in the
>product is nonsense. They could make all the executives work for a
>dollar a year and it won't fix these problems. Well it might let them
>upgrade the dash pad in every car... maybe the carpet too, but that's
>about it, the overall problems still exist.
Well said. >> Stay informed about: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed |
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External
Since: Jan 14, 2004
Posts: 1050
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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HLS wrote:
>
> Ed, you know as well as I do that the quality and durability of a lot of
> the Chrysler
> models is WORSE than terrible.
Actually, I disagree completely. I have yet to have a Chrysler product
let me down or expire with less than 200,000 miles. Actually, I've never
had one expire even OVER 200k miles, I've sold or traded with it still
running. Admittedly, I've avoided buying ones that I thought were not up
to snuff- like a Neon or anything that had a Mitsubishi engine. There's
no other brand that I'd buy used with over 100k miles on the clock like
I just did my 99 Cherokee (which is proving to be yet another
indestructible vehicle). If they go out of business, I'll keep finding
used ones to buy as long as I can. Then Ford. Then German. >> Stay informed about: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed |
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External
Since: Feb 25, 2005
Posts: 893
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Lloyd wrote:
> On Dec 3, 1:48 pm, "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3... RemoveThis @msn.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 2, 1:25 am, Josh S <J... RemoveThis @clean.spam> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> In article <49343ee8$1@kcnews01>,
>>> "C. E. White" <cewhi... RemoveThis @removemindspring.com> wrote:
>>>> "Comments4u" <comment... RemoveThis @nospam.mindspring.com.invalid> wrote in
>>>> messagenews:1ivlpckwmak4r.1cn1x8nnnk5ry.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>>> Yet he can't speak too highly of Ford products lest he be considered
>>>>> dishonest. Before being appointed Ford CEO, he was quoted as saying
>>>>> his
>>>>> personal Lexus was the best car in the world.
>>>> Doesn't everyone think the car they are driving is the best car in the
>>>> world "for them, all things considered?" If there were no constraints,
>>>> I am sure my current car would not be the best car for me, but given
>>>> my real world constraints, I bought the car because it was the best
>>>> one that met my requirements/constraints/desires at that time. I doubt
>>>> Mulally any more knew whether a Lexus was the best car in the world or
>>>> not than I do, but he certainly could have thought it was the best car
>>>> for him as far as he knew. I assume he knows better now:) When he was
>>>> running Boeing, I can't imagine him riding around in a Lexus and
>>>> saying, well it is a good car, but I was a dope for spending so much
>>>> for a pimped out Toyota. What high power, over paid CEO would ever
>>>> admit he bought anything but the best - especially when it was a
>>>> product produced in a foreign country?
>>> Seeing the current Lexus E350 ads amuses me.
>>> It looks and is so similar to my grey 300M. Under the Lexus only gains
>>> on more recent VVT, 6 SP auto and more air bags.
>>> Toyota copies very well as do a few other "foreign" cars.
>>> Perhaps the smart tasteful car stylists, that seem to be absent from
>>> recent Chrysler car body designs, were hired by this competition.
>> The biggest example is "Cab Forward" stuff which is the industry
>> standard now!
>
> Which is why Chrysler went away from it. If you want to distinguish
> yourself, and everybody else is copying your design, you need a new
> design.
>
>> I wish the people who say bad stuff about American Cars would actually
>> go and look some.
>
> The problems:
>
> 1. Reliability for GM and Chrysler is still subpar, on average. Only
> Ford seems to be in a league with Honda and Toyota.
>
> 2. Dependence on archaic 4-speed automatics, which saps power and fuel
> economy.
>
> 3. Skimping on the details, like too many hard surfaces in the
> interior. And just cheap interiors, especially Chrysler mid-size and
> small cars and SUVs.
>
> 4. Engines which aren't as smooth or as quiet as those from Honda and
> Toyota. Or as powerful. Come on, Chrysler, Nissan gets 305 hp from a
> 3.5 L V6; you get 250. Honda gets 190 hp from a 2.4 L 4; you get 178
> hp from a 2.7 L V6.
5. Usage of incorrect or inferior materials in headlight lenses that
cloud over on upper mid-line vehicles - like the LH cars.
--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x') >> Stay informed about: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed |
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External
Since: Feb 25, 2005
Posts: 893
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Brent wrote:
> On 2008-12-04, Lloyd <lparker RemoveThis @emory.edu> wrote:
>
>
>> 2. Dependence on archaic 4-speed automatics, which saps power and fuel
>> economy.
>
> This is how they pay the UAW workers.
>
>> 3. Skimping on the details, like too many hard surfaces in the
>> interior. And just cheap interiors, especially Chrysler mid-size and
>> small cars and SUVs.
>
> This is how they pay the UAW workers.
>
>> 4. Engines which aren't as smooth or as quiet as those from Honda and
>> Toyota. Or as powerful. Come on, Chrysler, Nissan gets 305 hp from a
>> 3.5 L V6; you get 250. Honda gets 190 hp from a 2.4 L 4; you get 178
>> hp from a 2.7 L V6.
>
> This is how they pay the UAW workers.
>
> A vehicle will only fetch X on the market. If you pay a higher labor
> rate you have to cut materials and time. Lesser interior materials save
> money. Specific horsepower is a function of cost in manufacturing
> processes and material. using particular designs longer cuts tooling and
> development costs making up for high cost labor. unflexible labor also
> forces one to stick with present designs because the manufacturing side
> can't handle new processes or new automation.
>
> The UAW, as a classic old-school union fights change and has an
> artifically high cost of labor. To think this doesn't show up in the
> product is nonsense. They could make all the executives work for a
> dollar a year and it won't fix these problems. Well it might let them
> upgrade the dash pad in every car... maybe the carpet too, but that's
> about it, the overall problems still exist.
When I worked for a supplier to Visteon (Ford) and Delhpi (GM), GM would
set up brainstorming meetings with us that lasted for days to jointly
try to figure out ways to cut costs in the product we manufactured and
sold them. One of the legal ground rules laid out up front by them was
that any idea that resulted in a body being eliminated from the assembly
process in their plant involving our part had to be automatically
rejected due to GM/union agreements (I do not believe Ford was under the
same constraint - it was something that GM uniquely had to live with due
to agreements that had been made years earlier, according to the way it
was explained to us by our sales rep.).
--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x') >> Stay informed about: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed |
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External
Since: Dec 04, 2008
Posts: 9
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2008-12-04, Bill Putney <bptn.TakeThisOut@kinez.net> wrote:
> 5. Usage of incorrect or inferior materials in headlight lenses that
> cloud over on upper mid-line vehicles - like the LH cars.
While some models see it sooner than others, that's pretty much
everyone's cars with plastic lenses. It's a function of the plastics
best suited for the job. The UV/hard coat quality varies, but ultimately
all the plastic lenses will cloud if the car is outside in the sun and
driven or the headlamps are used. Even mercedes plastic headlamps will
cloud over.
The only way to avoid it at present that I know of is to use glass. >> Stay informed about: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed |
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External
Since: Dec 04, 2008
Posts: 9
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2008-12-04, Bill Putney <bptn.RemoveThis@kinez.net> wrote:
> Brent wrote:
>> On 2008-12-04, Lloyd <lparker.RemoveThis@emory.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> 2. Dependence on archaic 4-speed automatics, which saps power and fuel
>>> economy.
>>
>> This is how they pay the UAW workers.
>>
>>> 3. Skimping on the details, like too many hard surfaces in the
>>> interior. And just cheap interiors, especially Chrysler mid-size and
>>> small cars and SUVs.
>>
>> This is how they pay the UAW workers.
>>
>>> 4. Engines which aren't as smooth or as quiet as those from Honda and
>>> Toyota. Or as powerful. Come on, Chrysler, Nissan gets 305 hp from a
>>> 3.5 L V6; you get 250. Honda gets 190 hp from a 2.4 L 4; you get 178
>>> hp from a 2.7 L V6.
>>
>> This is how they pay the UAW workers.
>>
>> A vehicle will only fetch X on the market. If you pay a higher labor
>> rate you have to cut materials and time. Lesser interior materials save
>> money. Specific horsepower is a function of cost in manufacturing
>> processes and material. using particular designs longer cuts tooling and
>> development costs making up for high cost labor. unflexible labor also
>> forces one to stick with present designs because the manufacturing side
>> can't handle new processes or new automation.
>>
>> The UAW, as a classic old-school union fights change and has an
>> artifically high cost of labor. To think this doesn't show up in the
>> product is nonsense. They could make all the executives work for a
>> dollar a year and it won't fix these problems. Well it might let them
>> upgrade the dash pad in every car... maybe the carpet too, but that's
>> about it, the overall problems still exist.
>
> When I worked for a supplier to Visteon (Ford) and Delhpi (GM), GM would
> set up brainstorming meetings with us that lasted for days to jointly
> try to figure out ways to cut costs in the product we manufactured and
> sold them. One of the legal ground rules laid out up front by them was
> that any idea that resulted in a body being eliminated from the assembly
> process in their plant involving our part had to be automatically
> rejected due to GM/union agreements (I do not believe Ford was under the
> same constraint - it was something that GM uniquely had to live with due
> to agreements that had been made years earlier, according to the way it
> was explained to us by our sales rep.).
That's really a kiss of death. Elimination of assembly steps, combining
parts into one part, and elimination of secondary processes are some of
the best ways to reduce cost with no negative impact on quality. >> Stay informed about: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed |
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External
Since: Nov 03, 2007
Posts: 242
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Brent wrote:
> On 2008-12-04, Bill Putney <bptn.DeleteThis@kinez.net> wrote:
>
>> 5. Usage of incorrect or inferior materials in headlight lenses that
>> cloud over on upper mid-line vehicles - like the LH cars.
>
> While some models see it sooner than others, that's pretty much
> everyone's cars with plastic lenses. It's a function of the plastics
> best suited for the job. The UV/hard coat quality varies, but ultimately
> all the plastic lenses will cloud if the car is outside in the sun and
> driven or the headlamps are used. Even mercedes plastic headlamps will
> cloud over.
>
> The only way to avoid it at present that I know of is to use glass.
>
you can't blame the mfgrs. for that. IIRC it is written into the MVSS
that addresses headlamps that any non-sealed-beam headlamp will have a
one piece lens/reflector assembly and that the lenses will be plastic.
For example, the VW Corrado uses a housing with a replaceable glass lens
in Germany, but the US-model ones got dangerously inferior one piece
plastic units. (thank you eBay Deutschland)
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel >> Stay informed about: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed |
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External
Since: Feb 25, 2005
Posts: 893
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Brent wrote:
> On 2008-12-04, Bill Putney <bptn.DeleteThis@kinez.net> wrote:
>
>> 5. Usage of incorrect or inferior materials in headlight lenses that
>> cloud over on upper mid-line vehicles - like the LH cars.
>
> While some models see it sooner than others, that's pretty much
> everyone's cars with plastic lenses. It's a function of the plastics
> best suited for the job. The UV/hard coat quality varies, but ultimately
> all the plastic lenses will cloud if the car is outside in the sun and
> driven or the headlamps are used. Even mercedes plastic headlamps will
> cloud over.
>
> The only way to avoid it at present that I know of is to use glass.
I don't see it evenly spread among the various makes, Brent. I have a
'99 Concorde, my wife has a '99 Buick Century. They both are in the
same driveway, not garaged. The Buick's headlights show no
discoloration. That Concorde gets driven a lot more than the Buick, but
it is the same with my other Concorde - a '98 that only gets used
occasionally on family trips, so it does not appear to be attributable
to amount that it is driven. It (headlight lens
replacement/restoration) is a constant topic of discussion on the LH car
forums. I realize my observations are over a limited sampling and that
you could be right, but I could see some manufacturers using better UV
coatings on the lenses than others for any number of reasons. My
suspicion is that that is indeed the case (I could be wrong).
--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x') >> Stay informed about: Detroit Rescue Plans Revealed |
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