Had an Accident, can anybody help me figure out what happe..

"Hachiroku ��ロク" <Trueno DeleteThis @AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:DeRhi.1111$wu5.1047@trndny03...
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 20:52:58 -0400, BrianJ wrote:
>
>> The car door would open,
>> but it was hard and noisy.
>
>
> Methinks your car is close to toast. Probably will be written off,
> depending on the adjuster. But a 97 with Unibody damage like this will
> probably be written off.


On a side note
I think the figure that will determine a total loss is 70%. If the repairs
exceed 70% of the value, the car will be totalled.
 >> Stay informed about: Had an Accident, can anybody help me figure out what happe.. 

<nm5k.RemoveThis@wt.net>
qslim" :
>> The fact that the situation you describe is made less safe certainly
>> isn't
>> the fault of the system. The responsibility lies squarely on the user to
>> adapt to new features and learn how to use them properly. How is a
>> vehicle
>> system that allows the driver to forget about pedal modulation and
>> maintain
>> better vehicle control under emergency braking a bad thing?
>
> Dunno, but I'm so used to manual pedal modulation in quick stop
> scenarios, that I actually think I would feel more comfortable without
> ABS. One thing I like about non ABS, is if I'm not skidding on a
> tire,
> I can hammer those brakes, and I know that sucker is going to stop
> quick.
> I know to slightly let up if I start slipping on a tire.. I do it from
> instinct.
> I think ABS would bother me... But to each his own.. BTW, I have
> driven a few ABS vehicles, but never have had to do a panic stop in
> one yet to see what they feel like.
> MK
>
>

That was my point. The ABS feature is designed to take over for you, but in
the heat of the moment, you may forget all about it.

Natalie
 >> Stay informed about: Had an Accident, can anybody help me figure out what happe.. 

"Jeff Strickland" ...
>
> "Wickeddoll®" ...
>>
>> But when one is in the panic mode of an accident, there are a whole new
>> set of reactions involved.
>>
>
>
> Or, the old reactions come to the surface ...
>
>
>
>
Heh, that's actually what I meant. We'd fall back into whatever habits we
have in a crisis, which is way different from normal driving.

Natalie
 >> Stay informed about: Had an Accident, can anybody help me figure out what happe.. 

YOu might go back and inspect the pavement and bring a gallon of water with
you. First feel the pavement dry to see if it is unusually slippery. Then
wet it slightly. You didn't mention whether the pavement was wet or dry but
put a tiny amount of water on it. I've seen defective pavement that is
unusally slippery under wet and/or dry conditions.



"BrianJ" <Lost.DeleteThis@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:tesd83tafflc6ee17s3ipmnosv9j6mao0m@4ax.com...
> I'm (was) driving a 97 Avalon, good maintenance and I really only
> drive about once or twice a week, (about 7k miles a year).
>
> I was traveling down a highway a good 6 or 7 car lengths behind when
> the cars in front of me all hit the brakes, well I put my foot on the
> brakes enough to slow the car (normally slow the car), but I didn't
> slow down much.
>
> There was presure from the pedal, but I just wasn't slowing down as
> much as I should have been. This was in about 20 to 30 feet.
>
> So I stepped a little harder and harder on the pedal until I was
> putting all my weight on it, I could feel the car braking harder but
> still not enough. The pedal never bottomed out.
>
> The thing is the way it felt to was like the brakes were stuttering,
> meaning grip--slide--grip--slid. This was on a day when the
> temperature and humidity were really high. well I rear ended the car
> in front of me, Luckly no one else hit anybody.
>
> When the cars collided the front of my car was angled down. and the
> other cars rear was up.
>
> The tires have about 4 to 5k miles on them (September). Traffic was
> smooth before the accident so I wasn't using the brakes so I don't
> think they were overheated. I'd been driving normally and didn't
> notice anything with the brakes. The pedal was about normal, not
> mushy. I had overheated brakes once in the hills in California, that
> will never happen to me again.
>
> I've been talking to a few friends, (no car mechanics here) and some
> of the ideas we've wondered about were was it the ABS, were the tires
> slidding on the rims, was there anything slippery on the road, I
> didn't see anything on the road.
>
> Side note, Accidents really do happen in slow motion.
>
> The car I hit has some bumper damage, my bumper looks fine but my
> grill, lights and radiator died and the hood waffled. The car door
> would open, but it was hard and noisy.
 >> Stay informed about: Had an Accident, can anybody help me figure out what happe.. 

"Art" <begunaNOSPAMPLEASE DeleteThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:21Uhi.2780$zA4.45@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> YOu might go back and inspect the pavement and bring a gallon of water
> with you. First feel the pavement dry to see if it is unusually slippery.
> Then wet it slightly. You didn't mention whether the pavement was wet or
> dry but put a tiny amount of water on it. I've seen defective pavement
> that is unusally slippery under wet and/or dry conditions.

If it hasn't rained heavily for a while, there could have been an oil slick.


>
>
>
> "BrianJ" <Lost DeleteThis @attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:tesd83tafflc6ee17s3ipmnosv9j6mao0m@4ax.com...
>> I'm (was) driving a 97 Avalon, good maintenance and I really only
>> drive about once or twice a week, (about 7k miles a year).
>>
>> I was traveling down a highway a good 6 or 7 car lengths behind when
>> the cars in front of me all hit the brakes, well I put my foot on the
>> brakes enough to slow the car (normally slow the car), but I didn't
>> slow down much.
>>
>> There was presure from the pedal, but I just wasn't slowing down as
>> much as I should have been. This was in about 20 to 30 feet.
>>
>> So I stepped a little harder and harder on the pedal until I was
>> putting all my weight on it, I could feel the car braking harder but
>> still not enough. The pedal never bottomed out.
>>
>> The thing is the way it felt to was like the brakes were stuttering,
>> meaning grip--slide--grip--slid. This was on a day when the
>> temperature and humidity were really high. well I rear ended the car
>> in front of me, Luckly no one else hit anybody.
>>
>> When the cars collided the front of my car was angled down. and the
>> other cars rear was up.
>>
>> The tires have about 4 to 5k miles on them (September). Traffic was
>> smooth before the accident so I wasn't using the brakes so I don't
>> think they were overheated. I'd been driving normally and didn't
>> notice anything with the brakes. The pedal was about normal, not
>> mushy. I had overheated brakes once in the hills in California, that
>> will never happen to me again.
>>
>> I've been talking to a few friends, (no car mechanics here) and some
>> of the ideas we've wondered about were was it the ABS, were the tires
>> slidding on the rims, was there anything slippery on the road, I
>> didn't see anything on the road.
>>
>> Side note, Accidents really do happen in slow motion.
>>
>> The car I hit has some bumper damage, my bumper looks fine but my
>> grill, lights and radiator died and the hood waffled. The car door
>> would open, but it was hard and noisy.
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Had an Accident, can anybody help me figure out what happe.. 

It was a clear but hot and humid day. The pavement had to have been
clear because all the cars around me had no problems stopping. There
was a car directly to my right and he started slowing down when I
didn't, and I was pressing on the brakes.

On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 21:50:32 GMT, "sharx35" <sharx35.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"Art" <begunaNOSPAMPLEASE.TakeThisOut@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:21Uhi.2780$zA4.45@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> YOu might go back and inspect the pavement and bring a gallon of water
>> with you. First feel the pavement dry to see if it is unusually slippery.
>> Then wet it slightly. You didn't mention whether the pavement was wet or
>> dry but put a tiny amount of water on it. I've seen defective pavement
>> that is unusally slippery under wet and/or dry conditions.
>
>If it hasn't rained heavily for a while, there could have been an oil slick.
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> "BrianJ" <Lost.TakeThisOut@attbi.com> wrote in message
>> news:tesd83tafflc6ee17s3ipmnosv9j6mao0m@4ax.com...
>>> I'm (was) driving a 97 Avalon, good maintenance and I really only
>>> drive about once or twice a week, (about 7k miles a year).
>>>
>>> I was traveling down a highway a good 6 or 7 car lengths behind when
>>> the cars in front of me all hit the brakes, well I put my foot on the
>>> brakes enough to slow the car (normally slow the car), but I didn't
>>> slow down much.
>>>
>>> There was presure from the pedal, but I just wasn't slowing down as
>>> much as I should have been. This was in about 20 to 30 feet.
>>>
>>> So I stepped a little harder and harder on the pedal until I was
>>> putting all my weight on it, I could feel the car braking harder but
>>> still not enough. The pedal never bottomed out.
>>>
>>> The thing is the way it felt to was like the brakes were stuttering,
>>> meaning grip--slide--grip--slid. This was on a day when the
>>> temperature and humidity were really high. well I rear ended the car
>>> in front of me, Luckly no one else hit anybody.
>>>
>>> When the cars collided the front of my car was angled down. and the
>>> other cars rear was up.
>>>
>>> The tires have about 4 to 5k miles on them (September). Traffic was
>>> smooth before the accident so I wasn't using the brakes so I don't
>>> think they were overheated. I'd been driving normally and didn't
>>> notice anything with the brakes. The pedal was about normal, not
>>> mushy. I had overheated brakes once in the hills in California, that
>>> will never happen to me again.
>>>
>>> I've been talking to a few friends, (no car mechanics here) and some
>>> of the ideas we've wondered about were was it the ABS, were the tires
>>> slidding on the rims, was there anything slippery on the road, I
>>> didn't see anything on the road.
>>>
>>> Side note, Accidents really do happen in slow motion.
>>>
>>> The car I hit has some bumper damage, my bumper looks fine but my
>>> grill, lights and radiator died and the hood waffled. The car door
>>> would open, but it was hard and noisy.
>>
>>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Had an Accident, can anybody help me figure out what happe.. 

I really believe that the tires were not under inflated and the road
conditions looked clean from what I could see, I couldn't see the
whole braking distance as there was traffic going over it.

On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 04:46:41 GMT, "sharx35" <sharx35.DeleteThis@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"BrianJ" <Lost.DeleteThis@attbi.com> wrote in message
>news:ac1e83dbgrm3n31isv1co4nlf8ee9ssssg@4ax.com...
>>I never let up on the pedal, I just kept putting more & more pressure
>> on it as I got closer to the car in front of me.
>>
>> But I definatly got that rat-a-tat-tat.
>>
>> The thing that I'm really wondering is why didn't I slow down as much
>> as I should have. The car should have stopped before it did.
>>
>> I'm just really confused as to why it didn't
>
>Presuming that you were on a relatively smooth, asphalt surface and that,
>indeed, that you DO have ABS brakes, you vehicle would normally have braked
>better. I suspect that one or more tires were very underinflated. However,
>it's, admittedly, a shot in the dark. Was there any sign of any sand or
>other granules on the road surface?
>
>
>
>
>>
>> On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:16:10 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
>> <crwlr.DeleteThis@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>It sounds like you managed to mash the brakes hard enough to activate the
>>>feature that prevents the brakes from locking.
>>>
>>>Your car has anti-lock brakes. The system is able to detect that one or
>>>more
>>>tires are about to lock up or have locked up, and the brake pressure to
>>>that
>>>tire is reduced for a microsecond. You feel the release of pressurse as a
>>>rat-a-tat-tat, or grip-slide-grip-slide. With ABS brakes, you are supposed
>>>to depress the pedal and hold it, and let the car stop itself. If you
>>>perceive the rat-a-tat-tat as a fault, and release the pedal, you will
>>>increase the distance it takes for your car to stop.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"BrianJ" <Lost.DeleteThis@attbi.com> wrote in message
>>>news:tesd83tafflc6ee17s3ipmnosv9j6mao0m@4ax.com...
>>>> I'm (was) driving a 97 Avalon, good maintenance and I really only
>>>> drive about once or twice a week, (about 7k miles a year).
>>>>
>>>> I was traveling down a highway a good 6 or 7 car lengths behind when
>>>> the cars in front of me all hit the brakes, well I put my foot on the
>>>> brakes enough to slow the car (normally slow the car), but I didn't
>>>> slow down much.
>>>>
>>>> There was presure from the pedal, but I just wasn't slowing down as
>>>> much as I should have been. This was in about 20 to 30 feet.
>>>>
>>>> So I stepped a little harder and harder on the pedal until I was
>>>> putting all my weight on it, I could feel the car braking harder but
>>>> still not enough. The pedal never bottomed out.
>>>>
>>>> The thing is the way it felt to was like the brakes were stuttering,
>>>> meaning grip--slide--grip--slid. This was on a day when the
>>>> temperature and humidity were really high. well I rear ended the car
>>>> in front of me, Luckly no one else hit anybody.
>>>>
>>>> When the cars collided the front of my car was angled down. and the
>>>> other cars rear was up.
>>>>
>>>> The tires have about 4 to 5k miles on them (September). Traffic was
>>>> smooth before the accident so I wasn't using the brakes so I don't
>>>> think they were overheated. I'd been driving normally and didn't
>>>> notice anything with the brakes. The pedal was about normal, not
>>>> mushy. I had overheated brakes once in the hills in California, that
>>>> will never happen to me again.
>>>>
>>>> I've been talking to a few friends, (no car mechanics here) and some
>>>> of the ideas we've wondered about were was it the ABS, were the tires
>>>> slidding on the rims, was there anything slippery on the road, I
>>>> didn't see anything on the road.
>>>>
>>>> Side note, Accidents really do happen in slow motion.
>>>>
>>>> The car I hit has some bumper damage, my bumper looks fine but my
>>>> grill, lights and radiator died and the hood waffled. The car door
>>>> would open, but it was hard and noisy.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Had an Accident, can anybody help me figure out what happe.. 

"BrianJ" <Lost.RemoveThis@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:9j3g835ktqjf9hjrf34l7f09n9k6ne4mp9@4ax.com...
>I really believe that the tires were not under inflated and the road
> conditions looked clean from what I could see, I couldn't see the
> whole braking distance as there was traffic going over it.
>

The only way to tell whether or not the tire were under-inflated is to check
the air pressure with a guage.

If you could not see the whole braking distance, you were most likely
following too close for conditions.

Your friends who thought that the tires were sliding on the rims were
incorrect, unless the tires were almost flat.

I used to have to check out cars that had been involved in accidents, and in
almost every case, the drivers claimed that the brakes did not work
properly, causing them to rear-end the vehicle in front of them. In every
case, the brakes checked out and were functioning properly and the cause of
the crash was determined to be following too close for conditions.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


> On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 04:46:41 GMT, "sharx35" <sharx35.RemoveThis@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"BrianJ" <Lost.RemoveThis@attbi.com> wrote in message
>>news:ac1e83dbgrm3n31isv1co4nlf8ee9ssssg@4ax.com...
>>>I never let up on the pedal, I just kept putting more & more pressure
>>> on it as I got closer to the car in front of me.
>>>
>>> But I definatly got that rat-a-tat-tat.
>>>
>>> The thing that I'm really wondering is why didn't I slow down as much
>>> as I should have. The car should have stopped before it did.
>>>
>>> I'm just really confused as to why it didn't
>>
>>Presuming that you were on a relatively smooth, asphalt surface and that,
>>indeed, that you DO have ABS brakes, you vehicle would normally have
>>braked
>>better. I suspect that one or more tires were very underinflated. However,
>>it's, admittedly, a shot in the dark. Was there any sign of any sand or
>>other granules on the road surface?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:16:10 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
>>> <crwlr.RemoveThis@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>It sounds like you managed to mash the brakes hard enough to activate
>>>>the
>>>>feature that prevents the brakes from locking.
>>>>
>>>>Your car has anti-lock brakes. The system is able to detect that one or
>>>>more
>>>>tires are about to lock up or have locked up, and the brake pressure to
>>>>that
>>>>tire is reduced for a microsecond. You feel the release of pressurse as
>>>>a
>>>>rat-a-tat-tat, or grip-slide-grip-slide. With ABS brakes, you are
>>>>supposed
>>>>to depress the pedal and hold it, and let the car stop itself. If you
>>>>perceive the rat-a-tat-tat as a fault, and release the pedal, you will
>>>>increase the distance it takes for your car to stop.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"BrianJ" <Lost.RemoveThis@attbi.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:tesd83tafflc6ee17s3ipmnosv9j6mao0m@4ax.com...
>>>>> I'm (was) driving a 97 Avalon, good maintenance and I really only
>>>>> drive about once or twice a week, (about 7k miles a year).
>>>>>
>>>>> I was traveling down a highway a good 6 or 7 car lengths behind when
>>>>> the cars in front of me all hit the brakes, well I put my foot on the
>>>>> brakes enough to slow the car (normally slow the car), but I didn't
>>>>> slow down much.
>>>>>
>>>>> There was presure from the pedal, but I just wasn't slowing down as
>>>>> much as I should have been. This was in about 20 to 30 feet.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I stepped a little harder and harder on the pedal until I was
>>>>> putting all my weight on it, I could feel the car braking harder but
>>>>> still not enough. The pedal never bottomed out.
>>>>>
>>>>> The thing is the way it felt to was like the brakes were stuttering,
>>>>> meaning grip--slide--grip--slid. This was on a day when the
>>>>> temperature and humidity were really high. well I rear ended the car
>>>>> in front of me, Luckly no one else hit anybody.
>>>>>
>>>>> When the cars collided the front of my car was angled down. and the
>>>>> other cars rear was up.
>>>>>
>>>>> The tires have about 4 to 5k miles on them (September). Traffic was
>>>>> smooth before the accident so I wasn't using the brakes so I don't
>>>>> think they were overheated. I'd been driving normally and didn't
>>>>> notice anything with the brakes. The pedal was about normal, not
>>>>> mushy. I had overheated brakes once in the hills in California, that
>>>>> will never happen to me again.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been talking to a few friends, (no car mechanics here) and some
>>>>> of the ideas we've wondered about were was it the ABS, were the tires
>>>>> slidding on the rims, was there anything slippery on the road, I
>>>>> didn't see anything on the road.
>>>>>
>>>>> Side note, Accidents really do happen in slow motion.
>>>>>
>>>>> The car I hit has some bumper damage, my bumper looks fine but my
>>>>> grill, lights and radiator died and the hood waffled. The car door
>>>>> would open, but it was hard and noisy.
>>
 >> Stay informed about: Had an Accident, can anybody help me figure out what happe.. 

Mike Hunter wrote:
> You mean the same Tom & Ray that told the RWD Ford Aerostar driver, that the
> noise coming from the front of his van when he turned left, was most likely
> the result of a bad CV joint, that Tom & Ray? LOL

No one is perfect, as you show quite often.

However, IIRC, that was about a AWD Aerostar, not a RWD Aerostar.

Jeff


> mike
>
> "Cathy F." <clfrclfr DeleteThis @adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:FMmdnWx1EeIBhRrbRVn_vgA@giganews.com...
>> "BrianJ" <Lost DeleteThis @attbi.com> wrote in message
>> news:2c5e83h0nkvkqh7c0e9f14m71m50vrc1io@4ax.com...
>>> The thing is that I've had the car for 6 years, been driving for 27
>>> years and this is my first accident.
>>>
>>> I've had to stop short before and had no problems. So I guess what I'm
>>> trying to say is that the car FELT wrong. I'm taking responsibility
>>> for the accident, I can afford the insurance increase and all that. I
>>> just really would like to know what COULD have gone wrong. This is
>>> just for my own satisfaction.
>>>
>>> I don't know if I'm saying it right but the times when the car was
>>> gripping and not gripping the road was more more not gripping than
>>> gripping.
>> If you don't think it was normal ABS braking, then personally I'd take it
>> to my mechanic/shop & ask them to check out the brakes. Or call "Car Talk"
>> & see what Tom & Ray think.
>>
>> Cathy
>>
>>
>>> On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:59:48 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
>>> <crwlr DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, in a panic stop (a stop where the brake is fully applied), the car
>>>> automatically activates the ABS system. ABS is cool because it allows the
>>>> driver to retain directional stability, but it can also result in what
>>>> might
>>>> be considered longer than expected stopping distance.
>>>>
>>>> Here's why,
>>>> If the brakes are fully applied -- as frequently happenes in a "panic
>>>> stop" -- the tires can lock up. when tires are locked up in a skid, the
>>>> operator has no control over the direction of the vehicle -- there are
>>>> boxes
>>>> full of reports where the driver said, I mashed the brake pedal as hard
>>>> as I
>>>> could and turned the steering wheel to the <left or right>, but I just
>>>> slid
>>>> right into the <whatever the obsticle was>.
>>>>
>>>> Engineers went to work on ABS brakes -- they actually adapted them from
>>>> aircraft, but I digress -- and they found that if a car had ABS, then the
>>>> driver could steer around the rapidly approaching obsticles. A downside
>>>> of
>>>> ABS is that since the system makes noise and causes a sensation in the
>>>> brake
>>>> pedal, many drivers lift on the brake pressure and this results in longer
>>>> stopping distances.
>>>>
>>>> There are arguments going both ways, the brake system represents a larger
>>>> friction area than the tire patch, so if the brakes are allowed to keep
>>>> working then the stopping distances housld be shorter, but if the noise
>>>> and
>>>> sensation cause the operator to lift off of the brake pedal, then braking
>>>> distances will be longer. The way to drive an ABS car is to mash the
>>>> brake
>>>> pedal as hard as you can and hold the pedal to the floor and let the car
>>>> do
>>>> the rest, if needed, you can yank the steering wheel to one side or the
>>>> other -- pick your side and stick with it, but do not pick one side then
>>>> the
>>>> other. (Having said that, it is easier said than done -- he said,
>>>> speaking
>>> >from personal experience.)
>>>> In any case, I think your car worked properly whether or not it did what
>>>> you
>>>> expected.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "BrianJ" <Lost DeleteThis @attbi.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ac1e83dbgrm3n31isv1co4nlf8ee9ssssg@4ax.com...
>>>>> I never let up on the pedal, I just kept putting more & more pressure
>>>>> on it as I got closer to the car in front of me.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I definatly got that rat-a-tat-tat.
>>>>>
>>>>> The thing that I'm really wondering is why didn't I slow down as much
>>>>> as I should have. The car should have stopped before it did.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just really confused as to why it didn't
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:16:10 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
>>>>> <crwlr DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It sounds like you managed to mash the brakes hard enough to activate
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> feature that prevents the brakes from locking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your car has anti-lock brakes. The system is able to detect that one or
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> tires are about to lock up or have locked up, and the brake pressure to
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> tire is reduced for a microsecond. You feel the release of pressurse as
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> rat-a-tat-tat, or grip-slide-grip-slide. With ABS brakes, you are
>>>>>> supposed
>>>>>> to depress the pedal and hold it, and let the car stop itself. If you
>>>>>> perceive the rat-a-tat-tat as a fault, and release the pedal, you will
>>>>>> increase the distance it takes for your car to stop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "BrianJ" <Lost DeleteThis @attbi.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:tesd83tafflc6ee17s3ipmnosv9j6mao0m@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> I'm (was) driving a 97 Avalon, good maintenance and I really only
>>>>>>> drive about once or twice a week, (about 7k miles a year).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was traveling down a highway a good 6 or 7 car lengths behind when
>>>>>>> the cars in front of me all hit the brakes, well I put my foot on the
>>>>>>> brakes enough to slow the car (normally slow the car), but I didn't
>>>>>>> slow down much.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There was presure from the pedal, but I just wasn't slowing down as
>>>>>>> much as I should have been. This was in about 20 to 30 feet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I stepped a little harder and harder on the pedal until I was
>>>>>>> putting all my weight on it, I could feel the car braking harder but
>>>>>>> still not enough. The pedal never bottomed out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The thing is the way it felt to was like the brakes were stuttering,
>>>>>>> meaning grip--slide--grip--slid. This was on a day when the
>>>>>>> temperature and humidity were really high. well I rear ended the car
>>>>>>> in front of me, Luckly no one else hit anybody.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When the cars collided the front of my car was angled down. and the
>>>>>>> other cars rear was up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The tires have about 4 to 5k miles on them (September). Traffic was
>>>>>>> smooth before the accident so I wasn't using the brakes so I don't
>>>>>>> think they were overheated. I'd been driving normally and didn't
>>>>>>> notice anything with the brakes. The pedal was about normal, not
>>>>>>> mushy. I had overheated brakes once in the hills in California, that
>>>>>>> will never happen to me again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been talking to a few friends, (no car mechanics here) and some
>>>>>>> of the ideas we've wondered about were was it the ABS, were the tires
>>>>>>> slidding on the rims, was there anything slippery on the road, I
>>>>>>> didn't see anything on the road.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Side note, Accidents really do happen in slow motion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The car I hit has some bumper damage, my bumper looks fine but my
>>>>>>> grill, lights and radiator died and the hood waffled. The car door
>>>>>>> would open, but it was hard and noisy.
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Had an Accident, can anybody help me figure out what happe.. 

Why do I not find it odd you would think that particular Aerostar was an
AWD, when it was a RWD? Can you supply the URL? LOL

mike


"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000 DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bIWhi.5277$pa5.3858@trndny05...
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> You mean the same Tom & Ray that told the RWD Ford Aerostar driver, that
>> the noise coming from the front of his van when he turned left, was most
>> likely the result of a bad CV joint, that Tom & Ray? LOL
>
> No one is perfect, as you show quite often.
>
> However, IIRC, that was about a AWD Aerostar, not a RWD Aerostar.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>> mike
>>
>> "Cathy F." <clfrclfr DeleteThis @adelphia.net> wrote in message
>> news:FMmdnWx1EeIBhRrbRVn_vgA@giganews.com...
>>> "BrianJ" <Lost DeleteThis @attbi.com> wrote in message
>>> news:2c5e83h0nkvkqh7c0e9f14m71m50vrc1io@4ax.com...
>>>> The thing is that I've had the car for 6 years, been driving for 27
>>>> years and this is my first accident.
>>>>
>>>> I've had to stop short before and had no problems. So I guess what I'm
>>>> trying to say is that the car FELT wrong. I'm taking responsibility
>>>> for the accident, I can afford the insurance increase and all that. I
>>>> just really would like to know what COULD have gone wrong. This is
>>>> just for my own satisfaction.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if I'm saying it right but the times when the car was
>>>> gripping and not gripping the road was more more not gripping than
>>>> gripping.
>>> If you don't think it was normal ABS braking, then personally I'd take
>>> it to my mechanic/shop & ask them to check out the brakes. Or call "Car
>>> Talk" & see what Tom & Ray think.
>>>
>>> Cathy
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:59:48 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
>>>> <crwlr DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, in a panic stop (a stop where the brake is fully applied), the
>>>>> car
>>>>> automatically activates the ABS system. ABS is cool because it allows
>>>>> the
>>>>> driver to retain directional stability, but it can also result in what
>>>>> might
>>>>> be considered longer than expected stopping distance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's why,
>>>>> If the brakes are fully applied -- as frequently happenes in a "panic
>>>>> stop" -- the tires can lock up. when tires are locked up in a skid,
>>>>> the
>>>>> operator has no control over the direction of the vehicle -- there are
>>>>> boxes
>>>>> full of reports where the driver said, I mashed the brake pedal as
>>>>> hard as I
>>>>> could and turned the steering wheel to the <left or right>, but I just
>>>>> slid
>>>>> right into the <whatever the obsticle was>.
>>>>>
>>>>> Engineers went to work on ABS brakes -- they actually adapted them
>>>>> from
>>>>> aircraft, but I digress -- and they found that if a car had ABS, then
>>>>> the
>>>>> driver could steer around the rapidly approaching obsticles. A
>>>>> downside of
>>>>> ABS is that since the system makes noise and causes a sensation in the
>>>>> brake
>>>>> pedal, many drivers lift on the brake pressure and this results in
>>>>> longer
>>>>> stopping distances.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are arguments going both ways, the brake system represents a
>>>>> larger
>>>>> friction area than the tire patch, so if the brakes are allowed to
>>>>> keep
>>>>> working then the stopping distances housld be shorter, but if the
>>>>> noise and
>>>>> sensation cause the operator to lift off of the brake pedal, then
>>>>> braking
>>>>> distances will be longer. The way to drive an ABS car is to mash the
>>>>> brake
>>>>> pedal as hard as you can and hold the pedal to the floor and let the
>>>>> car do
>>>>> the rest, if needed, you can yank the steering wheel to one side or
>>>>> the
>>>>> other -- pick your side and stick with it, but do not pick one side
>>>>> then the
>>>>> other. (Having said that, it is easier said than done -- he said,
>>>>> speaking
>>>> >from personal experience.)
>>>>> In any case, I think your car worked properly whether or not it did
>>>>> what you
>>>>> expected.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "BrianJ" <Lost DeleteThis @attbi.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:ac1e83dbgrm3n31isv1co4nlf8ee9ssssg@4ax.com...
>>>>>> I never let up on the pedal, I just kept putting more & more pressure
>>>>>> on it as I got closer to the car in front of me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I definatly got that rat-a-tat-tat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The thing that I'm really wondering is why didn't I slow down as much
>>>>>> as I should have. The car should have stopped before it did.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm just really confused as to why it didn't
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:16:10 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
>>>>>> <crwlr DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It sounds like you managed to mash the brakes hard enough to
>>>>>>> activate the
>>>>>>> feature that prevents the brakes from locking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your car has anti-lock brakes. The system is able to detect that one
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> tires are about to lock up or have locked up, and the brake pressure
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> tire is reduced for a microsecond. You feel the release of pressurse
>>>>>>> as a
>>>>>>> rat-a-tat-tat, or grip-slide-grip-slide. With ABS brakes, you are
>>>>>>> supposed
>>>>>>> to depress the pedal and hold it, and let the car stop itself. If
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> perceive the rat-a-tat-tat as a fault, and release the pedal, you
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> increase the distance it takes for your car to stop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "BrianJ" <Lost DeleteThis @attbi.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:tesd83tafflc6ee17s3ipmnosv9j6mao0m@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> I'm (was) driving a 97 Avalon, good maintenance and I really only
>>>>>>>> drive about once or twice a week, (about 7k miles a year).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was traveling down a highway a good 6 or 7 car lengths behind
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> the cars in front of me all hit the brakes, well I put my foot on
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> brakes enough to slow the car (normally slow the car), but I didn't
>>>>>>>> slow down much.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There was presure from the pedal, but I just wasn't slowing down as
>>>>>>>> much as I should have been. This was in about 20 to 30 feet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So I stepped a little harder and harder on the pedal until I was
>>>>>>>> putting all my weight on it, I could feel the car braking harder
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> still not enough. The pedal never bottomed out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The thing is the way it felt to was like the brakes were
>>>>>>>> stuttering,
>>>>>>>> meaning grip--slide--grip--slid. This was on a day when the
>>>>>>>> temperature and humidity were really high. well I rear ended the
>>>>>>>> car
>>>>>>>> in front of me, Luckly no one else hit anybody.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When the cars collided the front of my car was angled down. and the
>>>>>>>> other cars rear was up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The tires have about 4 to 5k miles on them (September). Traffic was
>>>>>>>> smooth before the accident so I wasn't using the brakes so I don't
>>>>>>>> think they were overheated. I'd been driving normally and didn't
>>>>>>>> notice anything with the brakes. The pedal was about normal, not
>>>>>>>> mushy. I had overheated brakes once in the hills in California,
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> will never happen to me again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've been talking to a few friends, (no car mechanics here) and
>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>> of the ideas we've wondered about were was it the ABS, were the
>>>>>>>> tires
>>>>>>>> slidding on the rims, was there anything slippery on the road, I
>>>>>>>> didn't see anything on the road.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Side note, Accidents really do happen in slow motion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The car I hit has some bumper damage, my bumper looks fine but my
>>>>>>>> grill, lights and radiator died and the hood waffled. The car door
>>>>>>>> would open, but it was hard and noisy.
>>>
>>
 >> Stay informed about: Had an Accident, can anybody help me figure out what happe.. 

On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 17:17:12 +0000, Jeff Strickland wrote:

>
> "Hachiroku ��ロク" <Trueno RemoveThis @AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:DeRhi.1111$wu5.1047@trndny03...
>> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 20:52:58 -0400, BrianJ wrote:
>>
>>> The car door would open,
>>> but it was hard and noisy.
>>
>>
>> Methinks your car is close to toast. Probably will be written off,
>> depending on the adjuster. But a 97 with Unibody damage like this will
>> probably be written off.
>
>
> On a side note
> I think the figure that will determine a total loss is 70%. If the repairs
> exceed 70% of the value, the car will be totalled.


Hey, Jeff, the dealer I was working at (used cars) sold mostly Salvage
Title vehicles.

You wouldn't *believe* the small amount of damage that would cause some
cars to be totalled! We had a Honda Accord come in once, the B pillar was
bent, and it needed a door and a fender. $240 to straighten the pillar,
and about $300 more for a fender and door. Our guy repaired the small
crinkle in the hood.

So, for a total of $4800, we had a '98 Accord (in 2002) with 60,000 miles
that we sold for $6900.

I saw trucks coming in with bent control arms, and a fender, or a stuffed
transfer case, and no other damage!

Yeaa, there is a 'rule of thumb', but it's often to the whim of the
adjuster, or the owner says, "I don't want it fixed".
 >> Stay informed about: Had an Accident, can anybody help me figure out what happe.. 

"Hachiroku ��ロク" <Trueno.TakeThisOut@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:1%Xhi.1392$105.597@trndny08...
> On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 17:17:12 +0000, Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
>>
>> "Hachiroku ��ロク" <Trueno.TakeThisOut@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>> news:DeRhi.1111$wu5.1047@trndny03...
>>> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 20:52:58 -0400, BrianJ wrote:
>>>
>>>> The car door would open,
>>>> but it was hard and noisy.
>>>
>>>
>>> Methinks your car is close to toast. Probably will be written off,
>>> depending on the adjuster. But a 97 with Unibody damage like this will
>>> probably be written off.
>>
>>
>> On a side note
>> I think the figure that will determine a total loss is 70%. If the
>> repairs
>> exceed 70% of the value, the car will be totalled.
>
>
> Hey, Jeff, the dealer I was working at (used cars) sold mostly Salvage
> Title vehicles.
>
> You wouldn't *believe* the small amount of damage that would cause some
> cars to be totalled! We had a Honda Accord come in once, the B pillar was
> bent, and it needed a door and a fender. $240 to straighten the pillar,
> and about $300 more for a fender and door. Our guy repaired the small
> crinkle in the hood.
>
> So, for a total of $4800, we had a '98 Accord (in 2002) with 60,000 miles
> that we sold for $6900.
>
> I saw trucks coming in with bent control arms, and a fender, or a stuffed
> transfer case, and no other damage!
>
> Yeaa, there is a 'rule of thumb', but it's often to the whim of the
> adjuster, or the owner says, "I don't want it fixed".
>
>


I own a '93 Mazda MPV with 110k miles on it.

The Mrs. was pulling out of the 'hood at the traffic light and drove into
the side of a car that ran the red light -- right in front of a cop, by the
way. The damage to the minivan was the plastic bumper cover and one of two
brackets that hold it on. The bracket is bolted to a plate that is spot
welded to the end of the frame rail.

The Insurance Company totaled the van because repairs would exceed the value
by a very wide margin. We drove the van to the body shop for a second
opinion, and they came back with greater detail that said pretty much the
same thing.

I gave receipts for recent (in miles) engine and transmission work intended
to keep the otherwise fine (well, that is a matter of taste I suppose)
vehicle on the road for many more years. In any case, the insurance company
paid me and let me keep the car.

I took a drive to the local auto wrecking yard and bought all of the repair
parts for under $100. We bought the bracket and the plate, both the left
(the one that got ripped off) and the right side, the bumper cover, and an
A/C pipe of some sort that we later determined was not damaged. We welded
the plate to the frame rail, bolted the bracket to the plate, and mounted
the bumper cover to the bracket. Including getting the parts, most of that
was driving to the junk yard, we spent about 6 hours on repairs, and under
$100. A bit more than $100 if you count the beers.

I spent $250 on the various state required inspections to get a salvage
title issued.
 >> Stay informed about: Had an Accident, can anybody help me figure out what happe.. 

I'm sorry, what I meant by I couldn't see the road conditions was that
there's too much traffic on the road while I was still there waiting
for the tow truck and I have no car right now to go back.

I'm tacking responsibility for the accident like I said, but with all
my years of driving I've never had the brakes feel the way they did
this time they just felt wrong.

If you could read what Stewart DIBBS wrote in this thread maybe you
can see what I'm trying to say.



On Sun, 1 Jul 2007 22:37:45 -0500, "Ray O"
<rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:

>
>"BrianJ" <Lost.TakeThisOut@attbi.com> wrote in message
>news:9j3g835ktqjf9hjrf34l7f09n9k6ne4mp9@4ax.com...
>>I really believe that the tires were not under inflated and the road
>> conditions looked clean from what I could see, I couldn't see the
>> whole braking distance as there was traffic going over it.
>>
>
>The only way to tell whether or not the tire were under-inflated is to check
>the air pressure with a guage.
>
>If you could not see the whole braking distance, you were most likely
>following too close for conditions.
>
>Your friends who thought that the tires were sliding on the rims were
>incorrect, unless the tires were almost flat.
>
>I used to have to check out cars that had been involved in accidents, and in
>almost every case, the drivers claimed that the brakes did not work
>properly, causing them to rear-end the vehicle in front of them. In every
>case, the brakes checked out and were functioning properly and the cause of
>the crash was determined to be following too close for conditions.
 >> Stay informed about: Had an Accident, can anybody help me figure out what happe..