Abnormal Rotor Wear

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 19:13:14 GMT, "Mike" <hlshadow DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

 >Hi all -
 >
 >I have an 02 TL-S, purchased at ~20K miles, now at 64K miles. When I bought
 >the car (CarMax), the rotors needed to be resurfaced -

Why?

 > done by CarMax. I
 >had them turned again at ~30K miles by the dealer,

Again... why?

then all 4 rotors and
 >pads replaced by Acura for free under a Service Bulletin at ~40K miles (the
 >bulletin was for the pads - and included new pads and rotors - WOOT!). I
 >had these turned again at ~50K,

What for? Chances are they didn't need it.

 >right before the warranty expired. At 60K,
 >they needed it again,

Again why? Who's telling you all this 'resurfacing' needs to be done?

 >so I took it back to the dealer hoping they would
 >resolve this once and for all as this is an "ongoing" problem - no dice.

Of course not! Their bottom line needs you!

 >The dealer was sympathetic, and forwarded the request to Corporate Acura who
 >told me over the phone after a 3 day wait that they will not warranty rotors
 >outside of the 50K coverage, period. So I waited a few months, and just had
 >them turned again

What for? What's the need for all this rotor turning business? Never
turn Honda rotors, it's not worth it. If they're bad enough to really
need turning ( grooved more than 1/8 inch) replace them.

 >with the purchase of new tires at 64K. That is FIVE times
 >in ~44K miles (20, 30, 40, 50, 64).

And I'll bet not one of them was necessary!

 >I really don't have a problem with the 50K issue as I know this is
 >considered a "wear item", and the pads are wearing evenly - so I don't
 >believe this is an issue with the calipers (but looking for guidance). Is
 >there anything outside of my driving style that could explain the problems I
 >am having with these?

Yeah, somebody is telling you your rotors need turning when they
don't.

 >This was my last "turn" on this set before they need
 >to be replaced again (in 10K miles), and I will likely go with slotted or
 >drilled for my next set to hopefully alleviate the problem.

Do you race? Do you drive down steep mountain grades? If not you don't
need slotted rotors. You need an honest mechanic, and I don't mean a
dealer.

 >the brakes seem to stop just fine - no pulling, etc., when braking.
 >
 >Any ideas ?

Yeah. Next time you're told your rotors need turning, spit in the guys
eye and go look for an honest mechanic.

See also: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#brakes" target="_blank">http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#brakes</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Abnormal Rotor Wear 

Um, ouch.

I should note that all of these save the last one were done for free....so
no real skin off my back until recently.

Thanks for the reply. As for WHY I have them done - vibration when braking
is the symptom...begins at higher speeds, and as time goes on becomes more
noticeable even at lower speeds. I have *Zero* problems outside of braking.
Turning / replacing the rotors has resolved the problem every time so
far.....but just for a little while. I realize replacement may be better
than turning, but if replacements only last the same mileage - why bother
with the expense? My most recent visit for tires included brake inspection,
including a nice long discussion with the mechanic who could find nothing
wrong outside of the rotors, and measurements on the rotors confirmed that
they did indeed need to be turned (Sorry I don't remember the numbers). The
dealer supposedly checked each time as well, and came to the same
conclusion.

I am trying to determine WHY I should spit in their faces - can you give me
a reason why I might be experiencing these symptoms, since I have even brake
pad wear, and why turning the rotors would resolve it temporarily ? I
should note I have heard in the past that improperly torqued lug nuts can
cause issues with rotors - I always loosen and re-torque my wheels after any
service visit to 80 ft/lbs. I also have not noted any rust, etc., when
mounting the tire that I would expect to cause a vibration. I also don't
race, and I live in the flatlands.

Thanks!

- Mike

"John Ings" <nodamned.TakeThisOut@spam.org> wrote in message
news:dhi9211hi3i4lgsae19c2dml9bchjt8m0a@4ax.com...
 > On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 19:13:14 GMT, "Mike" <hlshadow.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
 >
  > >Hi all -
  > >
  > >I have an 02 TL-S, purchased at ~20K miles, now at 64K miles. When I
bought
  > >the car (CarMax), the rotors needed to be resurfaced -
 >
 > Why?
 >
  > > done by CarMax. I
  > >had them turned again at ~30K miles by the dealer,
 >
 > Again... why?
 >
 > then all 4 rotors and
  > >pads replaced by Acura for free under a Service Bulletin at ~40K miles
(the
  > >bulletin was for the pads - and included new pads and rotors - WOOT!). I
  > >had these turned again at ~50K,
 >
 > What for? Chances are they didn't need it.
 >
  > >right before the warranty expired. At 60K,
  > >they needed it again,
 >
 > Again why? Who's telling you all this 'resurfacing' needs to be done?
 >
  > >so I took it back to the dealer hoping they would
  > >resolve this once and for all as this is an "ongoing" problem - no dice.
 >
 > Of course not! Their bottom line needs you!
 >
  > >The dealer was sympathetic, and forwarded the request to Corporate Acura
who
  > >told me over the phone after a 3 day wait that they will not warranty
rotors
  > >outside of the 50K coverage, period. So I waited a few months, and just
had
  > >them turned again
 >
 > What for? What's the need for all this rotor turning business? Never
 > turn Honda rotors, it's not worth it. If they're bad enough to really
 > need turning ( grooved more than 1/8 inch) replace them.
 >
  > >with the purchase of new tires at 64K. That is FIVE times
  > >in ~44K miles (20, 30, 40, 50, 64).
 >
 > And I'll bet not one of them was necessary!
 >
  > >I really don't have a problem with the 50K issue as I know this is
  > >considered a "wear item", and the pads are wearing evenly - so I don't
  > >believe this is an issue with the calipers (but looking for guidance).
Is
  > >there anything outside of my driving style that could explain the
problems I
  > >am having with these?
 >
 > Yeah, somebody is telling you your rotors need turning when they
 > don't.
 >
  > >This was my last "turn" on this set before they need
  > >to be replaced again (in 10K miles), and I will likely go with slotted or
  > >drilled for my next set to hopefully alleviate the problem.
 >
 > Do you race? Do you drive down steep mountain grades? If not you don't
 > need slotted rotors. You need an honest mechanic, and I don't mean a
 > dealer.
 >
  > >the brakes seem to stop just fine - no pulling, etc., when braking.
  > >
  > >Any ideas ?
 >
 > Yeah. Next time you're told your rotors need turning, spit in the guys
 > eye and go look for an honest mechanic.
 >
<font color=purple> > See also: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#brakes</font" target="_blank">http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#brakes</font</a>>
 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Abnormal Rotor Wear 

Do you by chance drive with one foot on the brake pedal at all times? Maybe the
Acura pedal is a little more sensitive than you are used to and you are keeping
the brakes hot and causing excessive wear on the rotors due to the constant
drag.

John

Mike wrote:

 > Hi all -
 >
 > I have an 02 TL-S, purchased at ~20K miles, now at 64K miles. When I bought
 > the car (CarMax), the rotors needed to be resurfaced - done by CarMax. I
 > had them turned again at ~30K miles by the dealer, then all 4 rotors and
 > pads replaced by Acura for free under a Service Bulletin at ~40K miles (the
 > bulletin was for the pads - and included new pads and rotors - WOOT!). I
 > had these turned again at ~50K, right before the warranty expired. At 60K,
 > they needed it again, so I took it back to the dealer hoping they would
 > resolve this once and for all as this is an "ongoing" problem - no dice.
 > The dealer was sympathetic, and forwarded the request to Corporate Acura who
 > told me over the phone after a 3 day wait that they will not warranty rotors
 > outside of the 50K coverage, period. So I waited a few months, and just had
 > them turned again with the purchase of new tires at 64K. That is FIVE times
 > in ~44K miles (20, 30, 40, 50, 64).
 >
 > I really don't have a problem with the 50K issue as I know this is
 > considered a "wear item", and the pads are wearing evenly - so I don't
 > believe this is an issue with the calipers (but looking for guidance). Is
 > there anything outside of my driving style that could explain the problems I
 > am having with these? This was my last "turn" on this set before they need
 > to be replaced again (in 10K miles), and I will likely go with slotted or
 > drilled for my next set to hopefully alleviate the problem. I'm 35 years
 > old and drive around most of the time with a 2 year old in the back seat - I
 > don't think I would really consider myself an aggressive driver. My
 > previous cars were a '91 Integra, '87 200SX, '88 Legend, and '99 Honda
 > Accord......I never had this type of problem with any of these. I also
 > know the TLS has oversized rotors compared to the regular TL anyway, and I
 > would expect a longer life from these things - everyone I talk to (including
 > the dealer) says this is not normal, but say everything else looks OK and
 > the brakes seem to stop just fine - no pulling, etc., when braking.
 >
 > Any ideas ?
 >
 > Thanks!
 >
 > - Mike<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Abnormal Rotor Wear 

Um, ouch.

I should note that all of these save the last one were done for free....so
no real skin off my back until recently.

Thanks for the reply. As for WHY I have them done - vibration when braking
is the symptom...begins at higher speeds, and as time goes on becomes more
noticeable even at lower speeds. I have *Zero* problems outside of braking.
Turning / replacing the rotors has resolved the problem every time so
far.....but just for a little while. I realize replacement may be better
than turning, but if replacements only last the same mileage - why bother
with the expense? My most recent visit for tires included brake inspection,
including a nice long discussion with the mechanic who could find nothing
wrong outside of the rotors, and measurements on the rotors confirmed that
they did indeed need to be turned (Sorry I don't remember the numbers). The
dealer supposedly checked each time as well, and came to the same
conclusion.

I am trying to determine WHY I should spit in their faces - can you give me
a reason why I might be experiencing these symptoms, since I have even brake
pad wear, and why turning the rotors would resolve it temporarily ? I
should note I have heard in the past that improperly torqued lug nuts can
cause issues with rotors - I always loosen and re-torque my wheels after any
service visit to 80 ft/lbs. I also have not noted any rust, etc., when
mounting the tire that I would expect to cause a vibration. I also don't
race, and I live in the flatlands.

Thanks!

- Mike

"Natman" <nat_mann RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4224c38f.12644652@netnews.comcast.net...
 > On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 19:13:14 GMT, "Mike" <hlshadow RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
 >
  > >Hi all -
  > >
  > >I have an 02 TL-S, purchased at ~20K miles, now at 64K miles. When I
bought
  > >the car (CarMax), the rotors needed to be resurfaced - done by CarMax. I
  > >had them turned again at ~30K miles by the dealer, then all 4 rotors and
  > >pads replaced by Acura for free under a Service Bulletin at ~40K miles
(the
  > >bulletin was for the pads - and included new pads and rotors - WOOT!). I
  > >had these turned again at ~50K, right before the warranty expired. At
60K,
  > >they needed it again, so I took it back to the dealer hoping they would
  > >resolve this once and for all as this is an "ongoing" problem - no dice.
  > >The dealer was sympathetic, and forwarded the request to Corporate Acura
who
  > >told me over the phone after a 3 day wait that they will not warranty
rotors
  > >outside of the 50K coverage, period. So I waited a few months, and just
had
  > >them turned again with the purchase of new tires at 64K. That is FIVE
times
  > >in ~44K miles (20, 30, 40, 50, 64).
  > >
  > >I really don't have a problem with the 50K issue as I know this is
  > >considered a "wear item", and the pads are wearing evenly - so I don't
  > >believe this is an issue with the calipers (but looking for guidance).
Is
  > >there anything outside of my driving style that could explain the
problems I
  > >am having with these? This was my last "turn" on this set before they
need
  > >to be replaced again (in 10K miles), and I will likely go with slotted or
  > >drilled for my next set to hopefully alleviate the problem. I'm 35 years
  > >old and drive around most of the time with a 2 year old in the back
seat - I
  > >don't think I would really consider myself an aggressive driver. My
  > >previous cars were a '91 Integra, '87 200SX, '88 Legend, and '99 Honda
  > >Accord......I never had this type of problem with any of these. I also
  > >know the TLS has oversized rotors compared to the regular TL anyway, and
I
  > >would expect a longer life from these things - everyone I talk to
(including
  > >the dealer) says this is not normal, but say everything else looks OK and
  > >the brakes seem to stop just fine - no pulling, etc., when braking.
  > >
  > >Any ideas ?
  > >
  > >Thanks!
  > >
  > >- Mike
  > >
  > >
  > >
 > There is something strange going on. To put it in perspective, my 90
 > Legend has 175K miles. The fronts have been turned ONCE, very lightly.
 > That was because the tell tales broke off on BOTH front pads and the
 > pads wore all the way down and scraped a little. That's with over 130K
 > miles with metallic pads.
 >
 > What indicates that the rotors need to be turned?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Abnormal Rotor Wear 

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 02:43:46 GMT, "Mike" <hlshadow DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

 >Thanks for the reply. As for WHY I have them done - vibration when braking
 >is the symptom...begins at higher speeds, and as time goes on becomes more
 >noticeable even at lower speeds.

What sort of vibration? Pedal pulsation or just a sort of juddery
feeling? I drive in mountain country and have noticed a mild vibration
when the brakes are hot that goes away when they cool.

 > I have *Zero* problems outside of braking.
 >Turning / replacing the rotors has resolved the problem every time so
 >far.....but just for a little while. I realize replacement may be better
 >than turning, but if replacements only last the same mileage - why bother
 >with the expense? My most recent visit for tires included brake inspection,
 >including a nice long discussion with the mechanic who could find nothing
 >wrong outside of the rotors, and measurements on the rotors confirmed that
 >they did indeed need to be turned

Because of what? Thickness variation? Scouring?
Are your wheel bearings OK?

 > (Sorry I don't remember the numbers). The
 >dealer supposedly checked each time as well, and came to the same
 >conclusion.

Here's an extensive dissertation on the subject:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.babcox.com/editorial/bf/bf100326.htm" target="_blank">http://www.babcox.com/editorial/bf/bf100326.htm</a>

 >I am trying to determine WHY I should spit in their faces -

Well that's hyperbole, but I'm of the opinion that rotor turning is
done far too often and for no good reason. I've been working on my own
disc brakes for 30 years and have yet to turn a rotor. I've had
newsgroup exchanges with mechanics who say that they turn rotors on
customer's cars as a CYA procedure, to prevent callbacks. They admit
they wouldn't turn the rotor if it was their own car.

 >can you give me
 >a reason why I might be experiencing these symptoms,

If the rotor actually is out of spec with thickness variations, wheel
bearings come to mind. See the website above for details.

 >since I have even brake
 >pad wear, and why turning the rotors would resolve it temporarily ? I
 >should note I have heard in the past that improperly torqued lug nuts can
 >cause issues with rotors -

That's been a bone of contention in this newsgroup before.
Some say yay, and some say nay.

 >I always loosen and re-torque my wheels after any
 >service visit to 80 ft/lbs. I also have not noted any rust, etc., when
 >mounting the tire that I would expect to cause a vibration. I also don't
 >race, and I live in the flatlands.

All a slotted rotor can do for you is to dissipate the vapour that
tends to form between pad and rotor under extreme braking.
Aftermarket slotted rotors might be of better quality metal.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Abnormal Rotor Wear 

"Mike" <hlshadow.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CL9Vd.10607$ha.732264@twister.southeast.rr.com...
 > Um, ouch.
 >
 > I should note that all of these save the last one were done for free....so
 > no real skin off my back until recently.
 >
 > Thanks for the reply. As for WHY I have them done - vibration when
 > braking
 > is the symptom...begins at higher speeds, and as time goes on becomes more
 > noticeable even at lower speeds. I have *Zero* problems outside of
 > braking.
 > Turning / replacing the rotors has resolved the problem every time so
 > far.....but just for a little while. I realize replacement may be better
 > than turning, but if replacements only last the same mileage - why bother
 > with the expense? My most recent visit for tires included brake
 > inspection,
 > including a nice long discussion with the mechanic who could find nothing
 > wrong outside of the rotors, and measurements on the rotors confirmed that
 > they did indeed need to be turned (Sorry I don't remember the numbers).
 > The
 > dealer supposedly checked each time as well, and came to the same
 > conclusion.
 >
Not an expert, but my experience is that warped rotors often result from
overtightening the lug nuts. Once I started using a torque wrench on lug
nuts I stopped having warped rotors.

Mike<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Abnormal Rotor Wear 

"Mike" <hlshadow.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:eM4Vd.6031$QC5.382834@twister.southeast.rr.com:

 > Um, ouch.
 >
 > I should note that all of these save the last one were done for
 > free....so no real skin off my back until recently.
 >
 > Thanks for the reply. As for WHY I have them done - vibration when
 > braking is the symptom...begins at higher speeds, and as time goes on
 > becomes more noticeable even at lower speeds. I have *Zero* problems
 > outside of braking. Turning / replacing the rotors has resolved the
 > problem every time so far.....but just for a little while. I realize
 > replacement may be better than turning, but if replacements only last
 > the same mileage - why bother with the expense? My most recent visit
 > for tires included brake inspection, including a nice long discussion
 > with the mechanic who could find nothing wrong outside of the rotors,
 > and measurements on the rotors confirmed that they did indeed need to
 > be turned (Sorry I don't remember the numbers). The dealer supposedly
 > checked each time as well, and came to the same conclusion.
 >
 > I am trying to determine WHY I should spit in their faces - can you
 > give me a reason why I might be experiencing these symptoms, since I
 > have even brake pad wear, and why turning the rotors would resolve it
 > temporarily ? I should note I have heard in the past that improperly
 > torqued lug nuts can cause issues with rotors - I always loosen and
 > re-torque my wheels after any service visit to 80 ft/lbs.

By then,the warping may have already started.

 >I also have
 > not noted any rust, etc., when mounting the tire that I would expect
 > to cause a vibration. I also don't race, and I live in the flatlands.
 >
 >
 > Thanks!
 >
 > - Mike


Does this always happen on the same wheel?
(maybe a wheel has unlevel surfaces on the inside that mates to the
rotor,warping it)
Maybe the problem moves as you rotate wheels?
Do you tighten the lugs in a cross-pattern,or just go around,one after
another?
Do you snug them down first,then torque,or just tighten to torque spec?
Perhaps one stud has thread damage,throwing off the torque reading?

I believe that rotors are only able to be turned once,then they get too
thin to be turned again.(legally)
Some here are of the opinion that turning the rotors even once makes them
prone to warping.
Warping would cause vibration when braking.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Abnormal Rotor Wear 

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik DeleteThis @abuse.gov.> wrote in message
news:Xns960EDEA9EEAC6jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83...
 > "Mike" <hlshadow DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in
 > news:eM4Vd.6031$QC5.382834@twister.southeast.rr.com:
 >
  >> I am trying to determine WHY I should spit in their faces - can you
  >> give me a reason why I might be experiencing these symptoms, since I
  >> have even brake pad wear, and why turning the rotors would resolve it
  >> temporarily ? I should note I have heard in the past that improperly
  >> torqued lug nuts can cause issues with rotors - I always loosen and
  >> re-torque my wheels after any service visit to 80 ft/lbs.
 >
 > By then,the warping may have already started.
 >
  >>I also have
  >> not noted any rust, etc., when mounting the tire that I would expect
  >> to cause a vibration. I also don't race, and I live in the flatlands.
  >>
  >>
  >> Thanks!
  >>
  >> - Mike
 >
 >
 > Does this always happen on the same wheel?
 > (maybe a wheel has unlevel surfaces on the inside that mates to the
 > rotor,warping it)
 > Maybe the problem moves as you rotate wheels?
 > Do you tighten the lugs in a cross-pattern,or just go around,one after
 > another?
 > Do you snug them down first,then torque,or just tighten to torque spec?
 > Perhaps one stud has thread damage,throwing off the torque reading?
 >
 > I believe that rotors are only able to be turned once,then they get too
 > thin to be turned again.(legally)
 > Some here are of the opinion that turning the rotors even once makes them
 > prone to warping.
 > Warping would cause vibration when braking.
 >
 > --
 > Jim Yanik
 > jyanik
 > at
 > kua.net

Count me in that group who suspects rotors that have been turned are more
susceptible to warping. I don't have any evidence but I did stop having
rotors turned as soon as I could afford to. My belief is that the reason for
minimum thickness being less than new thickness is to allow for wear. Also,
I think rotors that have been turned because they were warped will re-warp
because of stresses formed during braking when they were warped - it seems
likely any rotor that doesn't brake evenly will also heat unevenly during
braking.

Somebody recently directed me to a website that had a section on brake rotor
warping. It made a lot of sense, pointing out that what we speak of as
"warping" isn't lateral runout, where the rotor is bent, but is variation in
the thickness of the rotor as it rotates. Just like the acceleration bumps
on a dirt road, the thickened areas get worse as time goes on.

Disclaimer - I am not an expert on this, these are my own beliefs.

Mike<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Abnormal Rotor Wear 

Normally only the front two rotors need to be turned, but to be honest I'm
not sure if one side is worse than the other. I have my tires rotated at
every oil change (~7000 miles - I use Mobil 1 synthetic).

As for my torquing process, I walk around the car, and loosen all bolts on
all wheels (I do not raise the car - just do this while it sits in the
garage. I try to do this the same day the car has been brought home after
service. I then semi-tighten in a star-pattern, and then torque to 80
ft/lbs in the same pattern. I then move to the next wheel as I make my way
around the car. I am unaware of an issue with threads - but to be quite
honest I have never looked.

One thing I should mention, as you made me consider it with your post.....I
do have ONE rim that is ever-so-slightly off balance. I had some vibration
issues once at high speeds (70mph+), that I thought was simple tire
balancing. The dealer found nothing....but it was recommended I took the
car to a Tire Kingdom that has a "road-force-balancing" machine, which I
understand are quite rare. If you are unaware, this is a machine that puts
pressure on the tire as it spins on the balancer, and provides a MUCH more
accurate balance than a standard machine. Supposedly takes a lot of
training, and a LONG time to run - about an hour for 4 wheels, and costs
around $100. It can indicate if there is a problem with a wheel, or a
problem with a tire, that is causing the vibration. They determined there
was a SLIGHT issue with my rim, and were able to move the tire on the rim so
that the balance came out even. I should note that the tire/rim combination
balances PERFECTLY on a standard machine - but only the "road-force-balance"
resolved the high speed vibration problem. I am not sure if such a
miniscule problem (remember it balances fine on a normal machine) would have
an affect on the rotors - and I would hate to spend $250 on a new rim for no
reason. But now I am curious.



"Jim Yanik" <jyanik DeleteThis @abuse.gov.> wrote in message
news:Xns960EDEA9EEAC6jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83...
 > "Mike" <hlshadow DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in
 > news:eM4Vd.6031$QC5.382834@twister.southeast.rr.com:
 >
  >> Um, ouch.
  >>
  >> I should note that all of these save the last one were done for
  >> free....so no real skin off my back until recently.
  >>
  >> Thanks for the reply. As for WHY I have them done - vibration when
  >> braking is the symptom...begins at higher speeds, and as time goes on
  >> becomes more noticeable even at lower speeds. I have *Zero* problems
  >> outside of braking. Turning / replacing the rotors has resolved the
  >> problem every time so far.....but just for a little while. I realize
  >> replacement may be better than turning, but if replacements only last
  >> the same mileage - why bother with the expense? My most recent visit
  >> for tires included brake inspection, including a nice long discussion
  >> with the mechanic who could find nothing wrong outside of the rotors,
  >> and measurements on the rotors confirmed that they did indeed need to
  >> be turned (Sorry I don't remember the numbers). The dealer supposedly
  >> checked each time as well, and came to the same conclusion.
  >>
  >> I am trying to determine WHY I should spit in their faces - can you
  >> give me a reason why I might be experiencing these symptoms, since I
  >> have even brake pad wear, and why turning the rotors would resolve it
  >> temporarily ? I should note I have heard in the past that improperly
  >> torqued lug nuts can cause issues with rotors - I always loosen and
  >> re-torque my wheels after any service visit to 80 ft/lbs.
 >
 > By then,the warping may have already started.
 >
  >>I also have
  >> not noted any rust, etc., when mounting the tire that I would expect
  >> to cause a vibration. I also don't race, and I live in the flatlands.
  >>
  >>
  >> Thanks!
  >>
  >> - Mike
 >
 >
 > Does this always happen on the same wheel?
 > (maybe a wheel has unlevel surfaces on the inside that mates to the
 > rotor,warping it)
 > Maybe the problem moves as you rotate wheels?
 > Do you tighten the lugs in a cross-pattern,or just go around,one after
 > another?
 > Do you snug them down first,then torque,or just tighten to torque spec?
 > Perhaps one stud has thread damage,throwing off the torque reading?
 >
 > I believe that rotors are only able to be turned once,then they get too
 > thin to be turned again.(legally)
 > Some here are of the opinion that turning the rotors even once makes them
 > prone to warping.
 > Warping would cause vibration when braking.
 >
 > --
 > Jim Yanik
 > jyanik
 > at
 > kua.net<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Abnormal Rotor Wear 

I had all my 4 rotors turned and had no problems, but I was smart and used
OEM pads, not aftermarket crap. But it was done on the car using a lathe,
not off the car. Those one take way too much out of rotor to be useable.




"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull.RemoveThis@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:Xu-dnSuAqI19xbXfRVn-vA@sedona.net...
 > "Jim Yanik" <jyanik.RemoveThis@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
 > news:Xns960EDEA9EEAC6jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83...
  >> "Mike" <hlshadow.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in
  >> news:eM4Vd.6031$QC5.382834@twister.southeast.rr.com:
  >>
   >>> I am trying to determine WHY I should spit in their faces - can you
   >>> give me a reason why I might be experiencing these symptoms, since I
   >>> have even brake pad wear, and why turning the rotors would resolve it
   >>> temporarily ? I should note I have heard in the past that improperly
   >>> torqued lug nuts can cause issues with rotors - I always loosen and
   >>> re-torque my wheels after any service visit to 80 ft/lbs.
  >>
  >> By then,the warping may have already started.
  >>
   >>>I also have
   >>> not noted any rust, etc., when mounting the tire that I would expect
   >>> to cause a vibration. I also don't race, and I live in the flatlands.
   >>>
   >>>
   >>> Thanks!
   >>>
   >>> - Mike
  >>
  >>
  >> Does this always happen on the same wheel?
  >> (maybe a wheel has unlevel surfaces on the inside that mates to the
  >> rotor,warping it)
  >> Maybe the problem moves as you rotate wheels?
  >> Do you tighten the lugs in a cross-pattern,or just go around,one after
  >> another?
  >> Do you snug them down first,then torque,or just tighten to torque spec?
  >> Perhaps one stud has thread damage,throwing off the torque reading?
  >>
  >> I believe that rotors are only able to be turned once,then they get too
  >> thin to be turned again.(legally)
  >> Some here are of the opinion that turning the rotors even once makes them
  >> prone to warping.
  >> Warping would cause vibration when braking.
  >>
  >> --
  >> Jim Yanik
  >> jyanik
  >> at
  >> kua.net
 >
 > Count me in that group who suspects rotors that have been turned are more
 > susceptible to warping. I don't have any evidence but I did stop having
 > rotors turned as soon as I could afford to. My belief is that the reason
 > for minimum thickness being less than new thickness is to allow for wear.
 > Also, I think rotors that have been turned because they were warped will
 > re-warp because of stresses formed during braking when they were warped -
 > it seems likely any rotor that doesn't brake evenly will also heat
 > unevenly during braking.
 >
 > Somebody recently directed me to a website that had a section on brake
 > rotor warping. It made a lot of sense, pointing out that what we speak of
 > as "warping" isn't lateral runout, where the rotor is bent, but is
 > variation in the thickness of the rotor as it rotates. Just like the
 > acceleration bumps on a dirt road, the thickened areas get worse as time
 > goes on.
 >
 > Disclaimer - I am not an expert on this, these are my own beliefs.
 >
 > Mike
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Abnormal Rotor Wear 

"Nightdude" <nightdude RemoveThis @rogers.com> wrote in message
news:01Yae.641$BW6.184739@news20.bellglobal.com...
 >I had all my 4 rotors turned and had no problems, but I was smart and used
 >OEM pads, not aftermarket crap. But it was done on the car using a lathe,
 >not off the car. Those one take way too much out of rotor to be useable.
 >
OEM is really the way to go. The last time I changed pads on my Volvo I used
OEM pads and BAP rotors. The rotors are more seriously worn than the pads
now! The original rotors made it nearly 200K miles with less wear than that.

Mike<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Abnormal Rotor Wear 

If the dealer does not install a generous amount of brake grease on the slider pins, the pads could be staying clenched against the rotor causing abnormal wear rates.
 >> Stay informed about: Abnormal Rotor Wear