AFS Trinity to announce 250 mpg Extreme Hybrid car on Jan ..

Yes it does. It all counts towards getting the most empg out of of
whatever fossil or synfuel, and thereby contributing the least per
mile CO2 and NOx into our badly polluted environment. It's a win-win,
not half bad looking and affordable.

- Brad Guth


MadDog... DeleteThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jan 11, 7:25 pm, Joe <useful_in... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> > More athttp://Muvy.org
>
> Why do you endorse these fraudulentt claims?
> Range with part of the energy coming from an initial charge
> does not have anything to do with MPG.
 >> Stay informed about: AFS Trinity to announce 250 mpg Extreme Hybrid car on Jan .. 

You should see the car I'm designing. It will get 3,750 MPG and
deliver over 500 horsepower. It it self-cleaning and the Limited
Edition will cook dinner for you. Concept pictures coming soon.
 >> Stay informed about: AFS Trinity to announce 250 mpg Extreme Hybrid car on Jan .. 

These vehicles aren't fantasy pipe-dreams. There are already a number
of companies and individuals who will convert a Prius to Plug-in Hybrid
Electric (PHEV), and Toyota is currently road testing a production
version.

The MPG claims are not as straight-forward as with other cars, because
actual mileage will differ drastically based on driving habits. If
someone did a daily commute within the electric-only range, then they'd
never use gas, and the MPG would be infinite. Though if you took a
cross-country trip without plugging in during the trip, the MPG would be
the same as a conventional hybrid. No doubt the marketing folks used a
scenario of a 'typical' driver to come up with the 250 MPG number, but
it doesn't make it unrealistic, nor does it mean these cars aren't a
significant step forward.

In article <17b1abf0-c483-4035-88e4-75336b7638c7
@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, zwestfall.DeleteThis@gmail.com says...
> You should see the car I'm designing. It will get 3,750 MPG and
> deliver over 500 horsepower. It it self-cleaning and the Limited
> Edition will cook dinner for you. Concept pictures coming soon.
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: AFS Trinity to announce 250 mpg Extreme Hybrid car on Jan .. 

BradGuth wrote:
> Yes it does. It all counts towards getting the most empg out of of
> whatever fossil or synfuel, and thereby contributing the least per
> mile CO2 and NOx into our badly polluted environment. It's a win-win,
> not half bad looking and affordable.
>
> - Brad Guth
>
>
> MadDog... RemoveThis @yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Jan 11, 7:25 pm, Joe <useful_in... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> More athttp://Muvy.org
>> Why do you endorse these fraudulentt claims?
>> Range with part of the energy coming from an initial charge
>> does not have anything to do with MPG.


Over the road travel the Generator will use 1- 1.5gal of fuel per
hour.... at 60 mph thats still only ~60 mpg... on a 10 hour trip you
only get the first 30 miles or so on the over night charge.
 >> Stay informed about: AFS Trinity to announce 250 mpg Extreme Hybrid car on Jan .. 

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:56:33 -0500, Talk-n-Dog
<WatchDog@talk-n-dog..com> wrote:

>BradGuth wrote:
>> Yes it does. It all counts towards getting the most empg out of of
>> whatever fossil or synfuel, and thereby contributing the least per
>> mile CO2 and NOx into our badly polluted environment. It's a win-win,
>> not half bad looking and affordable.
>>
>> - Brad Guth
>>
>>
>> MadDog....RemoveThis@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Jan 11, 7:25 pm, Joe <useful_in....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> More athttp://Muvy.org
>>> Why do you endorse these fraudulentt claims?
>>> Range with part of the energy coming from an initial charge
>>> does not have anything to do with MPG.
>
>
>Over the road travel the Generator will use 1- 1.5gal of fuel per
>hour.... at 60 mph thats still only ~60 mpg... on a 10 hour trip you
>only get the first 30 miles or so on the over night charge.

True, although 60 mpg isn't bad. The big savings comes from the fact
that most cars are driven only 30 to 40 miles per day starting at and
returning to home where they could be charged overnight. If most of
your driving is 10 hour trips, a plug-in probably isn't a good choice.
 >> Stay informed about: AFS Trinity to announce 250 mpg Extreme Hybrid car on Jan .. 

Mr. G wrote:
> These vehicles aren't fantasy pipe-dreams. There are already a number
> of companies and individuals who will convert a Prius to Plug-in Hybrid
> Electric (PHEV), and Toyota is currently road testing a production
> version.
>
> The MPG claims are not as straight-forward as with other cars, because
> actual mileage will differ drastically based on driving habits. If
> someone did a daily commute within the electric-only range, then they'd
> never use gas, and the MPG would be infinite.

Yet, the electricity that they use requires the burning of fossil fuels,
unless it came from renewable resources, like solar power.

So effectively, the lower gas mileage does a lot to make people feel
good, but doesn't really reduce greenhouse gases.

Does the zero gas mileage take into account the amount of fossil fuels
needed to make the batteries, not to mention the tires, engine and rest
of the car?

Jeff
 >> Stay informed about: AFS Trinity to announce 250 mpg Extreme Hybrid car on Jan .. 

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:18:31 GMT, Jeff <kidsdoc2000.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Mr. G wrote:
>> These vehicles aren't fantasy pipe-dreams. There are already a number
>> of companies and individuals who will convert a Prius to Plug-in Hybrid
>> Electric (PHEV), and Toyota is currently road testing a production
>> version.
>>
>> The MPG claims are not as straight-forward as with other cars, because
>> actual mileage will differ drastically based on driving habits. If
>> someone did a daily commute within the electric-only range, then they'd
>> never use gas, and the MPG would be infinite.
>
>Yet, the electricity that they use requires the burning of fossil fuels,
>unless it came from renewable resources, like solar power.
>
>So effectively, the lower gas mileage does a lot to make people feel
>good, but doesn't really reduce greenhouse gases.
>
>Does the zero gas mileage take into account the amount of fossil fuels
>needed to make the batteries, not to mention the tires, engine and rest
>of the car?

Does the mileage estimate for a conventional car include the energy
required to make it? The hybrid batteries don't require any
extraordinary amount of energy to manufacture.

Electrical generation and transmission is much more efficient than an
automotive ICE. And it can be practically be generated from renewable
sources like wind and solar.

The major problem with plug-ins (whether hybrids or pure electric) is
the batteries. In a conventional hybrid, the batteries are never
charged or discharged outside of a relatively narrow range, say 50 to
80% of capacity. Used in this manner, the batteries last a long time
- maybe the life of the car. If a plug-in is to achieve maximum
efficiency, it will be charged up to 100%, then discharged to near
zero. Such use greatly decreases the life expectancy of these
batteries. When you add in the fact that a plug-in is likely to carry
a lot more battery capacity than a conventional hybrid, the battery
cost over the life of the vehicle may not be economically viable.
 >> Stay informed about: AFS Trinity to announce 250 mpg Extreme Hybrid car on Jan .. 

BradGuth <bradguth.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:

>Yes it does. It all counts towards getting the most empg out of of
>whatever fossil or synfuel, and thereby contributing the least per
>mile CO2 and NOx

I agree 100 percent, any way to reduce oil imports (to
any country) is the most important economical situation ever
to face the world.

>into our badly polluted environment. It's a win-win,
>not half bad looking and affordable.
>- Brad Guth

The environment is not badly polluted, but certain cities
or areas are, and those places are where Electric Vehicles should
be the only kind sold.
Even with an emergency generator on the back to use
if batteries get low enough to damage them would be ok, the
fact that any Electric Vehicle gets at least double the mileage
the old clunkers get is reason enough for places like Los Angeles
County in California to pass legislation to that effect.
 >> Stay informed about: AFS Trinity to announce 250 mpg Extreme Hybrid car on Jan .. 

Jeff <kidsdoc2000.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Yet, people are not talking about retrofitting gasoline cars with
>batteries and electric motors.

Actually, many are, just double click

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=electric+vehicle+garage*

>And the car can also supply electricity back to the grid from the car's
>battery, decreasing the extent to which inefficient generators are used
>(and just charging the cars with the more efficient generators at night)
>or alternatively, even run the motors, which may be more efficient than
>some of the generators which would have to be started to keep up with
>demand.

Don't even bother to think such a thing with today's batteries,
maybe in 10 years something like that could be tried, but on a local
neighborhood basis.

>Personally, I think the plug-in hybrids are going to be a great thing.
>But, we must remember when the energy comes from electricity, ethanol or
>hydrogen, there is still a lot of fossil fuel used to make the final
>energy form and build the cars.
>Jeff

There better be more nuclear capacity built than plugin demand,
else a lot of people will have to move south, or freeze, many people
can't afford to run a central heating system to heat the whole house,
and zoned electric heat is a way to reduce space heating costs where
rates are less than 10 cents per kilowatt hour.
 >> Stay informed about: AFS Trinity to announce 250 mpg Extreme Hybrid car on Jan .. 

Gordon McGrew wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:18:31 GMT, Jeff <kidsdoc2000 RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Mr. G wrote:
>>> These vehicles aren't fantasy pipe-dreams. There are already a number
>>> of companies and individuals who will convert a Prius to Plug-in Hybrid
>>> Electric (PHEV), and Toyota is currently road testing a production
>>> version.
>>>
>>> The MPG claims are not as straight-forward as with other cars, because
>>> actual mileage will differ drastically based on driving habits. If
>>> someone did a daily commute within the electric-only range, then they'd
>>> never use gas, and the MPG would be infinite.
>> Yet, the electricity that they use requires the burning of fossil fuels,
>> unless it came from renewable resources, like solar power.
>>
>> So effectively, the lower gas mileage does a lot to make people feel
>> good, but doesn't really reduce greenhouse gases.
>>
>> Does the zero gas mileage take into account the amount of fossil fuels
>> needed to make the batteries, not to mention the tires, engine and rest
>> of the car?
>
> Does the mileage estimate for a conventional car include the energy
> required to make it? The hybrid batteries don't require any
> extraordinary amount of energy to manufacture.

Of course the MPG figures don't include the energy to make the cars.
But it still takes energy.

But they also require the materials be mined, the batteries made, etc.
It is still energy.

> Electrical generation and transmission is much more efficient than an
> automotive ICE. And it can be practically be generated from renewable
> sources like wind and solar.

Unless the energy comes directly from a solar panel, a wind turbine,
etc., and the energy would not have been fed into the electric grid,
then, electricity use to run the car results in more fossil fuels being
used.

> The major problem with plug-ins (whether hybrids or pure electric) is
> the batteries. In a conventional hybrid, the batteries are never
> charged or discharged outside of a relatively narrow range, say 50 to
> 80% of capacity. Used in this manner, the batteries last a long time
> - maybe the life of the car. If a plug-in is to achieve maximum
> efficiency, it will be charged up to 100%, then discharged to near
> zero. Such use greatly decreases the life expectancy of these
> batteries. When you add in the fact that a plug-in is likely to carry
> a lot more battery capacity than a conventional hybrid, the battery
> cost over the life of the vehicle may not be economically viable.

True. But battery technology is constantly improving. IIRC, the
engineers have studied using batteries outside the narrow range and have
found that using batteries with a wider range doesn't damage the batteries.

In addition, there are better batteries under development, like the ones
that Chevy would like to put into its volt (but they won't ready for at
least a few years).

Jeff
 >> Stay informed about: AFS Trinity to announce 250 mpg Extreme Hybrid car on Jan .. 

On Jan 12, 6:56 am, Talk-n-Dog <WatchDog@talk-n-dog..com> wrote:
> BradGuth wrote:
> > Yes it does. It all counts towards getting the most empg out of of
> > whatever fossil or synfuel, and thereby contributing the least per
> > mile CO2 and NOx into our badly polluted environment. It's a win-win,
> > not half bad looking and affordable.
>
> > - BradGuth
>
> > MadDog....RemoveThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> On Jan 11, 7:25 pm, Joe <useful_in....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> More athttp://Muvy.org
> >> Why do you endorse these fraudulentt claims?
> >> Range with part of the energy coming from an initial charge
> >> does not have anything to do with MPG.
>
> Over the road travel the Generator will use 1- 1.5gal of fuel per
> hour.... at 60 mph thats still only ~60 mpg... on a 10 hour trip you
> only get the first 30 miles or so on the over night charge.

That's only because these hybrids are not using h2o2 plus fossil/
synfuel, and/or h2o2/aluminum as their fuel-cell/battery.

- Brad Guth
 >> Stay informed about: AFS Trinity to announce 250 mpg Extreme Hybrid car on Jan .. 

On Jan 12, 1:22 pm, Whata Fool <wh... RemoveThis @fool.ami> wrote:
> BradGuth <bradg... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> >Yes it does. It all counts towards getting the most empg out of of
> >whatever fossil or synfuel, and thereby contributing the least per
> >mile CO2 and NOx
>
> I agree 100 percent, any way to reduce oil imports (to
> any country) is the most important economical situation ever
> to face the world.
>
> >into our badly polluted environment. It's a win-win,
> >not half bad looking and affordable.
> >- BradGuth
>
> The environment is not badly polluted, but certain cities
> or areas are, and those places are where Electric Vehicles should
> be the only kind sold.

You obviously haven't spoken to a diatom as of lately. They don't
exactly thrive on NOx.

>
> Even with an emergency generator on the back to use
> if batteries get low enough to damage them would be ok, the
> fact that any Electric Vehicle gets at least double the mileage
> the old clunkers get is reason enough for places like Los Angeles
> County in California to pass legislation to that effect.

There are great improvements in batteries or fuel-cell energy density
capability, and h2o2 + fossil/synfuel is offering another terrific do-
everything solution of zero NOx.

- Brad Guth
 >> Stay informed about: AFS Trinity to announce 250 mpg Extreme Hybrid car on Jan .. 

On Jan 19, 11:39 pm, Talk-n-Dog <WatchDog@talk-n-dog..com> wrote:
> kbrichard wrote:
> > ..
> >> In article <17b1abf0-c483-4035-88e4-75336b7638c7
> >> @j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, zwestf... DeleteThis @gmail.com says...
> >>> You should see the car I'm designing. It will get 3,750 MPG and
> >>> deliver over 500 horsepower. It it self-cleaning and the Limited
> >>> Edition will cook dinner for you. Concept pictures coming soon.
>
> > AKA wife with saddle attachment
>
> I never got that much horsepower out of mine....

You could try getting the head skimmed
 >> Stay informed about: AFS Trinity to announce 250 mpg Extreme Hybrid car on Jan ..