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'91 Jetta cruise control question

 
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jettaman8691

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Since: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 4



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:30 pm
Post subject: '91 Jetta cruise control question
Archived from groups: rec>autos>makers>vw>watercooled (more info?)

Have a diesel with cruise that has not been working, so did the
diagnosis procedure listed in the Bentley manual. The procedure is
fairly simple, using a jumper wire and indicator light. The cruise
control/turn signal switch handle and and vacuum pump work fine. When
checking the functioning of the small indicators that mount on the
clutch and brake pedals, the power seems to be backwards. If I read
the manual correctly, I connect a lead, with the indicator light,
between the #1 and #3 positions on the cruise control's brain. With
the key ON and the cruise ON, when I step on the brake or clutch, the
light is supposed to turn on. My problem is that the light is ON when
I first hook up to the #1 and #3 positions, and goes OUT when I step
on either of the pedals. Have I somehow made some power connections
backwards? Thanks for any help you folks may provide.

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Randolph

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Since: Dec 13, 2003
Posts: 542



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 2:43 am
Post subject: Re: '91 Jetta cruise control question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

jettaman8691 wrote:
 >
 > If I read
 > the manual correctly, I connect a lead, with the indicator light,
 > between the #1 and #3 positions on the cruise control's brain. With
 > the key ON and the cruise ON, when I step on the brake or clutch, the
 > light is supposed to turn on. My problem is that the light is ON when
 > I first hook up to the #1 and #3 positions, and goes OUT when I step
 > on either of the pedals.

What you see is normal. When not touching either pedal, there should be
continuity from terminal 3 to ground. Thus a test light between terminal
3 and terminal 1 (positive supply) should light up with no pedals
pressed and turn off when touching either pedal.

On some A2 cars, terminal 3 was connected to the brake switch, the other
side of the brake switch was connected to the clutch switch, and finally
the other side of the clutch switch was connected to ground. On others
the clutch switch was connected to the brake lights switch instead of
ground. In this configuration the ground circuit is completed through
the brake light filaments (thus if all brake light bulbs were out the
cruise wouldn't work). I don't think this is relevant for your problem,
I mention it because it could potentially cause confusion when
troubleshooting.

The next test to do (not sure if it is mentioned in Bentley or not) is
to hook a voltmeter (don't use a test light) between terminal 5 (speed
sensor) and ground (e.g. from terminal Cool at the harness that plugs in
to the brain. Then drive really slowly across a parking lot (sloooow
walking pace only). It doesn't matter if the cruise main switch is on or
off and it doesn't matter if the brain is plugged in or not. The voltage
should alternate between around 0 volts and some higher voltage (5 volts
or 10 volts, I can't remember). If the voltage is not alternating, the
speed sensor is probably bad. It is mounted to the back of the
speedometer in the instrument cluster. Small Hall-effect sender in a
plastic holder, mounted with two screws. The flex circuit from the
instrument cluster connects to it. I believe there were two different
kinds in use depending on whether the car has the MFA or not.

Both the speed sensor and the cruise brain are pretty easy to find at
the junk yard. The VW part number is printed on the housing, and the
unit was used in a wide variety of both Audis and VW's for years and
years. I picked up a *complete* cruise control system for my '87 for
under $50 at a local junk yard.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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jettaman8691

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Since: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 4



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:00 am
Post subject: Re: '91 Jetta cruise control question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Randolph <trash.TakeThisOut@junkmail.com> wrote in message news:<41070473.2DE91E68.TakeThisOut@junkmail.com>...
 > jettaman8691 wrote:
  > >
  > > If I read
  > > the manual correctly, I connect a lead, with the indicator light,
  > > between the #1 and #3 positions on the cruise control's brain. With
  > > the key ON and the cruise ON, when I step on the brake or clutch, the
  > > light is supposed to turn on. My problem is that the light is ON when
  > > I first hook up to the #1 and #3 positions, and goes OUT when I step
  > > on either of the pedals.
 >
 > What you see is normal. When not touching either pedal, there should be
 > continuity from terminal 3 to ground. Thus a test light between terminal
 > 3 and terminal 1 (positive supply) should light up with no pedals
 > pressed and turn off when touching either pedal.
 >
 > On some A2 cars, terminal 3 was connected to the brake switch, the other
 > side of the brake switch was connected to the clutch switch, and finally
 > the other side of the clutch switch was connected to ground. On others
 > the clutch switch was connected to the brake lights switch instead of
 > ground. In this configuration the ground circuit is completed through
 > the brake light filaments (thus if all brake light bulbs were out the
 > cruise wouldn't work). I don't think this is relevant for your problem,
 > I mention it because it could potentially cause confusion when
 > troubleshooting.
 >
 > The next test to do (not sure if it is mentioned in Bentley or not) is
 > to hook a voltmeter (don't use a test light) between terminal 5 (speed
 > sensor) and ground (e.g. from terminal Cool at the harness that plugs in
 > to the brain. Then drive really slowly across a parking lot (sloooow
 > walking pace only). It doesn't matter if the cruise main switch is on or
 > off and it doesn't matter if the brain is plugged in or not. The voltage
 > should alternate between around 0 volts and some higher voltage (5 volts
 > or 10 volts, I can't remember). If the voltage is not alternating, the
 > speed sensor is probably bad. It is mounted to the back of the
 > speedometer in the instrument cluster. Small Hall-effect sender in a
 > plastic holder, mounted with two screws. The flex circuit from the
 > instrument cluster connects to it. I believe there were two different
 > kinds in use depending on whether the car has the MFA or not.
 >
 > Both the speed sensor and the cruise brain are pretty easy to find at
 > the junk yard. The VW part number is printed on the housing, and the
 > unit was used in a wide variety of both Audis and VW's for years and
 > years. I picked up a *complete* cruise control system for my '87 for
 > under $50 at a local junk yard.


Again, thank you. I did finally check the resistance of the speed
sensor and found that it was bad. Put in a different one I pulled
from a spare speedo and now the cruise works fine.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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user987

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Since: May 03, 2004
Posts: 77



(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:20 pm
Post subject: Re: '91 Jetta cruise control question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, Randolph wrote:

 >The next test to do (not sure if it is mentioned in Bentley or not)

I read Randolf's troubleshooting procedure with great interest. The
cruise control in my '95 has drifted from intermittent to engage to
hardly ever engaging. Once engaged it worked well. Re-engaging after
tapping the brake for traffic was also intermittent.

My (C)1996 Bentley does not have a troubleshooting procedure-- at
least as far as I can find.

I have pulled off the knee bar, sill trim and relay/fuse cover
panel. Accessibility was not quite what I had hoped for.

The control module is said to be in the A pillar. To me that means
windshield-high. Yet it looks like the area behind the lower trim
where the hood release mounts would have more room. Could somebody
confirm that the module is indeed up high. Removing the trim either
place seems to be non-trivial. And if I do get in there would I
probably be able to access a connector to use Randolf's procedure?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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user987

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Since: May 03, 2004
Posts: 77



(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:13 pm
Post subject: Re: '91 Jetta cruise control question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, Tom's VR6 wrote:

 >The control module is said to be in the A pillar.

I see a silver-colored module in the dash near the headlight switch.
It says Steuergerät 5GA 004 397-11.

The far side of the box (nearer to firewall) has a black connector.

Is this the cruise control module, or the alarm module?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Randolph

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Since: Dec 13, 2003
Posts: 542



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 1:52 am
Post subject: Re: '91 Jetta cruise control question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Tom's VR6 wrote:
 >
 > In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, Tom's VR6 wrote:
 >
  > >The control module is said to be in the A pillar.
 >
 > I see a silver-colored module in the dash near the headlight switch.
 > It says Steuergerät 5GA 004 397-11.

5GA 004 397-11 is the manufacturer's (Hella) part number, the full
description is "GR Steuergerat 12V" and it is indeed the cruise control
brain.

From my copy of ETKA it seems the internal VW part number is 1H0 907
305. On my '87 the module had both the VW part number and the
manufacturer's part number printed on the box.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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webmaster7

External


Since: May 25, 2004
Posts: 1



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 2:06 am
Post subject: Re: '91 Jetta cruise control question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Yeah the silver one is the cc the black (or white) one is the alarm.
I have had this problem happend on two a3's the cruise computer is
dead / on the way out. I put a used one in and all was back to
norm.

Dan

 > Tom's VR6wrote:
In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, Tom's VR6 wrote:
 >
 > The control module is said to be in the A pillar.
 >
I see a silver-colored module in the dash near the headlight switch.
It says Steuergerät 5GA 004 397-11.

The far side of the box (nearer to firewall) has a black connector.

Is this the cruise control module, or the alarm
module?[/quote:463d708ab3]
From VWsport.com NNTP Gateway<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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user987

External


Since: May 03, 2004
Posts: 77



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:29 pm
Post subject: Re: '91 Jetta cruise control question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, Randolph wrote:

 >
 >Tom's VR6 wrote:
  >>
  >> In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, Tom's VR6 wrote:
  >>
   >> >The control module is said to be in the A pillar.
  >>
  >> I see a silver-colored module in the dash near the headlight switch.
  >> It says Steuergerät 5GA 004 397-11.
 >
 >5GA 004 397-11 is the manufacturer's (Hella) part number, the full
 >description is "GR Steuergerat 12V" and it is indeed the cruise control
 >brain.



Thanks! I can proceed to trying to access the connector and
troubleshooting.


 >
 >From my copy of ETKA it seems the internal VW part number is 1H0 907
 >305. On my '87 the module had both the VW part number and the
 >manufacturer's part number printed on the box.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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user987

External


Since: May 03, 2004
Posts: 77



(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:31 pm
Post subject: Re: '91 Jetta cruise control question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, admin wrote:

 >Yeah the silver one is the cc the black (or white) one is the alarm.
 > I have had this problem happend on two a3's the cruise computer is
 >dead / on the way out. I put a used one in and all was back to
 >norm.

Thanks!

Reports tend to indicate they are more trouble-prone than most
electronic things. However since mine failed more progressively, I
wonder if it would be less likely an electronic problem.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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res1bnnu

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Since: Apr 28, 2004
Posts: 4



(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:44 am
Post subject: Re: '91 Jetta cruise control question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

One thing I've found to fail more then anything else and is probably the
easiest fix is the pedal switches.the connections get corroded from time and
connection is slowly degraded till gone. Just use ohmmeter to confirm less
then a couple ohms when closed. If bad remove,carefully clean contacts
lightly grease,reassemble and your off. Next culprit would be speed
senser,very rarely does the control unit go out although it is possible.

"Tom's VR6" <no DeleteThis @mail.please> wrote in message
news:estkg0t1pjc2koiloglb3j56jb4pbf6pa1@4ax.com...
 > In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, admin wrote:
 >
  > >Yeah the silver one is the cc the black (or white) one is the alarm.
  > > I have had this problem happend on two a3's the cruise computer is
  > >dead / on the way out. I put a used one in and all was back to
  > >norm.
 >
 > Thanks!
 >
 > Reports tend to indicate they are more trouble-prone than most
 > electronic things. However since mine failed more progressively, I
 > wonder if it would be less likely an electronic problem.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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user987

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Since: May 03, 2004
Posts: 77



(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:33 am
Post subject: Re: '91 Jetta cruise control question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, Joe Hancock wrote:

 >One thing I've found to fail more then anything else and is probably the
 >easiest fix is the pedal switches.the connections get corroded from time and
 >connection is slowly degraded till gone. Just use ohmmeter to confirm less
 >then a couple ohms when closed. If bad remove,carefully clean contacts
 >lightly grease,reassemble and your off. Next culprit would be speed
 >senser,very rarely does the control unit go out although it is possible.

I was excited to find the clutch switch to be a little flaky.
Wiggling the clutch cable made the voltage change in the test at the
module connector.

Woohoo! I was going to be the rare one who did not end up with a bad
module.

I took the switch off and apart. I cleaned the contacts with good
contact cleaner without removing the vacuum grease. I re-assembled
and tested. Looked good on the ohmmeter. I re-installed with some
difficulty.

Unfortunately in my test drive cruise control still did not engage.

I removed and pried into the module. No visible problem. I connected
it un-sheathed. The only test I did that way to confirm the
electronics had +5 volt Vcc. Dang. I was hoping it was the
regulator.

There is the 5-volt regulator in a heat-sunk TO-220, a transistor in
TO-220 package, about 6 TO-92 transistors, a 40-pin DIP 80C49
microcontroller, two CMOS 14-pin DIP gate ICs, a relay, and a bunch
of other components.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Randolph

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Since: Dec 13, 2003
Posts: 542



(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:05 am
Post subject: Re: '91 Jetta cruise control question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Did you check the "Set" switch? The stalk I installed (taken from an
'86 Jetta at the wreckers) is a little flaky, takes fairly firm press on
the set button to get the cruise to engage. Same thing with the switch
at the end of the MFA stalk, when I got the car (an '87, bought used in
'95) that switch was very hard to operate, but has gotten better over
the years. Same type switch as the cruise set switch (at least on my '86
/ '87 hybrid)

Testing momentary switches can be a little tricky, one hand holds one
ohmmeter probe to one side of the switch, the second hand holds the
other probe to the other switch contact, the third hand operates the
switch... With all sorts of fingers in all sorts of places, you are just
happy to hear the meter beep (or buzz or whatever sound yours make) and
you conclude that the switch is fine. Not always the case. Frequently
when momentary switches go bad, as you slooooowly press the button, it
will go from off to on and back off again, perhaps several times
throughout the switch travel. Often times the debounce algorithm will
reject such a noisy button press.

Tom's VR6 wrote:
 >
 > In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, Joe Hancock wrote:
 >
  > >One thing I've found to fail more then anything else and is probably the
  > >easiest fix is the pedal switches.the connections get corroded from time and
  > >connection is slowly degraded till gone. Just use ohmmeter to confirm less
  > >then a couple ohms when closed. If bad remove,carefully clean contacts
  > >lightly grease,reassemble and your off. Next culprit would be speed
  > >senser,very rarely does the control unit go out although it is possible.
 >
 > I was excited to find the clutch switch to be a little flaky.
 > Wiggling the clutch cable made the voltage change in the test at the
 > module connector.
 >
 > Woohoo! I was going to be the rare one who did not end up with a bad
 > module.
 >
 > I took the switch off and apart. I cleaned the contacts with good
 > contact cleaner without removing the vacuum grease. I re-assembled
 > and tested. Looked good on the ohmmeter. I re-installed with some
 > difficulty.
 >
 > Unfortunately in my test drive cruise control still did not engage.
 >
 > I removed and pried into the module. No visible problem. I connected
 > it un-sheathed. The only test I did that way to confirm the
 > electronics had +5 volt Vcc. Dang. I was hoping it was the
 > regulator.
 >
 > There is the 5-volt regulator in a heat-sunk TO-220, a transistor in
 > TO-220 package, about 6 TO-92 transistors, a 40-pin DIP 80C49
 > microcontroller, two CMOS 14-pin DIP gate ICs, a relay, and a bunch
 > of other components.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Snooper601

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Since: Aug 24, 2005
Posts: 1



(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:43 am
Post subject: Re: '91 Jetta cruise control question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Hi Guys,

I have a similar problem on my Ford Galaxy, uses the same Hella/VW part.
Mine has R1 in and exploded state and I can't read the resistor value
because of this. R1 was under a blob of white silicone rubber near the
connector plug.

Is anyone able to supply me with the value of this resistor please?

Cheers

Snooper601
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VladC




Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 1



(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:07 pm
Post subject: Re: '91 Jetta cruise control question [Login to view extended thread Info.]

Snooper601 wrote:
Hi Guys,

I have a similar problem on my Ford Galaxy, uses the same Hella/VW part.
Mine has R1 in and exploded state and I can't read the resistor value
because of this. R1 was under a blob of white silicone rubber near the
connector plug.

Is anyone able to supply me with the value of this resistor please?

Cheers

Snooper601


Chris,

R1=10 Om. I just cleaned up the white blub to see if mine R1 is blown too. It was fine though, and measured 10 Oms.
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