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'86 951 - Time to do the Timing Belt

 
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William Noble

External


Since: Nov 07, 2007
Posts: 137



(Msg. 16) Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:48 pm
Post subject: Re: '86 951 - Time to do the Timing Belt [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>autos>porsche>944 (more info?)

the TT had the original factory belt you can believe or not.

and, quite frankly, your statement "the belt has to have zero tension on it"
is absolute complete utter nonsense. What do you think that $650 gauge
measures if it isn't belt tension? In fact it is physically impossible for
the belt to have zero tension on it, even if you are holding it in your hand
not installed in the car.

I am sure your friend is an excellent and trusted mechanic. If he is also
technically knowlegable, have him explain to you about belt tension. Or,
you can read for yourself in the SAE handbook, or in the Porsche manual, or
in a myriad of other technical publications.

Normally I would ignore this, but if others were to believe the "zero
tension" statement, they would put their car at serious risk of damage - you
may do what you want with your car, but others should be extremely cautious
if they elect to follow your tension number.





"jolie" <aol RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:5c6dnS7FT6277z_VnZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Oh a TT huh, nice girl's car- did the belt fail after you replaced it - or
> was it installed by Audi?
>
> My friend is one of the most respected and trusted Porsche mechanic and he
> wouldn't adjust a belt without the Porsche belt adjuster. I also thought
> I could hand adjust the belt - but it was never correct. That belt has to
> have zero tension on it - and that's what prevents teeth from breaking
> off - hence, I never had a broken belt.
>
> Well I still have my old trusty 87 944, but I just bought a new 08
> VELOCITY YELLOW CORVETTE...what a great supercar so far. GM and the USA
> should be proud.
> But it remains to be seen if the car has the greatness of a Porsche.
>
> My 30 years and 800,000 miles of driving and maintaining my two 944's
> myself has been nothing short of spectacular.
> --
>
> joliett
> ______________
> ______________
>


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

 >> Stay informed about: '86 951 - Time to do the Timing Belt 
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jolie

External


Since: Jul 06, 2007
Posts: 11



(Msg. 17) Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:53 am
Post subject: Re: '86 951 - Time to do the Timing Belt [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Porsche specs says to adjust the drive and balance belts to USED BELT 2.7
+-.3 or NEW BELT 4 +-.3 (humm units arent available - so it's specific to
Porsche's expensive gauge) - which is pretty darn close to zero tension.
The idea is such that the teeth aren't supposed to be pulled one way or the
other from too much tension or too little tension. They are supposed to sit
in the sprocket without very little tension. Too loose and you skip a
sprocket and possible valve damage - too tight and you break a tooth and
possibly the belt.

Again - take it is you will, 800K miles of Porsche driving and maintenance
myself - with NEVER a belt broken. Also, I didn't adhere to the scheduled
mileage recommendations for belt changes either...not that I recommend that
to anyone...I only changed the belts when servicing the water pump - or when
I had oil leaking into the rollers and belts through shaft bearing seals -
so sometimes I would say I went 100K miles without belt changing.

I bet it was using that expensive Porsche belt adjusting tool that kept my
belts in such great unbroken shape. I think - not sure - that most Porsche
clubs have one to lend.

Anyway -- I think the 944 - especially the 1983 944 - was perhaps the best
and most reliable car ever built.

And thank you Mr. Noble for your invaluable forum participation.

joliett
______________
______________

"William Noble" <nobody RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:ccc97$48a4fd53$18676@news.teranews.com...
> the TT had the original factory belt you can believe or not.
>
> and, quite frankly, your statement "the belt has to have zero tension on
> it" is absolute complete utter nonsense. What do you think that $650
> gauge measures if it isn't belt tension? In fact it is physically
> impossible for the belt to have zero tension on it, even if you are
> holding it in your hand not installed in the car.
>
> I am sure your friend is an excellent and trusted mechanic. If he is also
> technically knowlegable, have him explain to you about belt tension. Or,
> you can read for yourself in the SAE handbook, or in the Porsche manual,
> or in a myriad of other technical publications.
>
> Normally I would ignore this, but if others were to believe the "zero
> tension" statement, they would put their car at serious risk of damage -
> you may do what you want with your car, but others should be extremely
> cautious if they elect to follow your tension number.
>
>
>
>
>
> "jolie" <aol RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
> news:5c6dnS7FT6277z_VnZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Oh a TT huh, nice girl's car- did the belt fail after you replaced it -
>> or was it installed by Audi?
>>
>> My friend is one of the most respected and trusted Porsche mechanic and
>> he wouldn't adjust a belt without the Porsche belt adjuster. I also
>> thought I could hand adjust the belt - but it was never correct. That
>> belt has to have zero tension on it - and that's what prevents teeth from
>> breaking off - hence, I never had a broken belt.
>>
>> Well I still have my old trusty 87 944, but I just bought a new 08
>> VELOCITY YELLOW CORVETTE...what a great supercar so far. GM and the USA
>> should be proud.
>> But it remains to be seen if the car has the greatness of a Porsche.
>>
>> My 30 years and 800,000 miles of driving and maintaining my two 944's
>> myself has been nothing short of spectacular.
>> --
>>
>> joliett
>> ______________
>> ______________
>>
>
>
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

 >> Stay informed about: '86 951 - Time to do the Timing Belt 
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William Noble

External


Since: Nov 07, 2007
Posts: 137



(Msg. 18) Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:31 am
Post subject: Re: '86 951 - Time to do the Timing Belt [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"jolie" <aol DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:WZednSV_z9UZPjvVnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Porsche specs says to adjust the drive and balance belts to USED BELT 2.7
> +-.3 or NEW BELT 4 +-.3 (humm units arent available - so it's specific to
> Porsche's expensive gauge) - which is pretty darn close to zero tension.
> The idea is such that the teeth aren't supposed to be pulled one way or
> the other from too much tension or too little tension. They are supposed
> to sit in the sprocket without very little tension. Too loose and you
> skip a sprocket and possible valve damage - too tight and you break a
> tooth and possibly the belt.
>

Whoopee - we agree. Belt requires SOME tension - amount not specified in
manual.

Of course using the gauge is safe. What I was pointing out is that if you
dont' have the gauge, you can do it without the gauge, and I was pointing
out a convenient artifact of the design, in that the balance shaft belt can
pretty much be depended on to fail first. You can tell too tight vs too
loose by inspection - too tight and you get a VERY distinctive whine from
overloaded bearings. Too loose and the belt flaps visibly. 87 and later
have a spring tensioner for timing belt, so you can compare tension on the
balance belt to the timing belt with your finger or a GATES "Clickit" tool
if you need to.

But, my recent Audi experience suggests another caution - the belt DID NOT
break, and on that car the belt is tensioned automatically by a
hydraulically damped spring loaded roller. The failure mode was separation
of 4 to 6 teeth. This is probably age related. The audi belt is under more
load (due to 24 valves and dual cams) than 944s (well, S model excluded) but
the failure mode could certainly happen - so to avoid $$ repair, I suggest
you do not want to wait for a water pump failure to change belts. On my
85.5, with around 300K miles now, the water pump failed at 90K, replaced it
(and belts) and that was it - same water pump is on the car as I put on at
90K. That is way too long to expect critical belts to last. (and no, I
don't drive it, I gave it to my brother)


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
 >> Stay informed about: '86 951 - Time to do the Timing Belt 
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