2.7T Gas Mileage

"Benjamin Gawert" wrote
> I.e. the last Volkswagen Passat with 1.8l Turbo engine (20 valve) was sold
> in the US with 130hp while the European version had 150hp. This was done
> because of the lower fuel quality.

The 1.8T never had 130hp in the US. It had 150hp initially, and then 170hp
in later years.

Pete
 >> Stay informed about: 2.7T Gas Mileage 

I call bullshit....


"Benjamin Gawert" <bgawert.DeleteThis@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:60e3l8F1qv4tpU1@mid.individual.net...
>* Pete:
>>
>> "Benjamin Gawert" wrote
>>> The fuel quality in the US is much lower than in western Europe. The
>>> Audis (and VWs and BMWs and Mercedes) that are made for the US contain
>>> specific modifications to run reliable with that low fuel quality.
>>
>> Can you provide links to some documentation on this subject? It's not
>> that I don't trust you. It's just that I'd like to find a valid source
>> if this information.
>
> I don't have a link by hand. There once were some articles on a oil
> company website that discussed that stuff but I can't remember the link.
>
> You can for example compare the European fuel standards (EN228 for
> gasoline and EN590 for Diesel) with the equivalent US standards and you'll
> see that the European standards are much tighter.
>
> Besides that, if you have access to maintenance/part documentation you can
> compare the specifications for US and European models of certain cars.
> I.e. the last Volkswagen Passat with 1.8l Turbo engine (20 valve) was sold
> in the US with 130hp while the European version had 150hp. This was done
> because of the lower fuel quality.
>
> There are other differences as well. German-made cars sold in Western
> Europe usually conform to the German standard which means the car must run
> reliable even when driving at maximum speed for a long time. Overseas
> versions which rarely get driven faster than 55-80 mp/h often come with
> downsized cooling systems, brake systems and other things which save the
> manufacturer money and have no influence on safety or reliability in
> countries with general speed limits.
>
> Benjamin
 >> Stay informed about: 2.7T Gas Mileage 

I call bullshit....


"Benjamin Gawert" <bgawert DeleteThis @gmx.de> wrote in message
news:60e3l8F1qv4tpU1@mid.individual.net...
>* Pete:
>>
>> "Benjamin Gawert" wrote
>>> The fuel quality in the US is much lower than in western Europe. The
>>> Audis (and VWs and BMWs and Mercedes) that are made for the US contain
>>> specific modifications to run reliable with that low fuel quality.
>>
>> Can you provide links to some documentation on this subject? It's not
>> that I don't trust you. It's just that I'd like to find a valid source
>> if this information.
>
> I don't have a link by hand. There once were some articles on a oil
> company website that discussed that stuff but I can't remember the link.
>
> You can for example compare the European fuel standards (EN228 for
> gasoline and EN590 for Diesel) with the equivalent US standards and you'll
> see that the European standards are much tighter.
>
> Besides that, if you have access to maintenance/part documentation you can
> compare the specifications for US and European models of certain cars.
> I.e. the last Volkswagen Passat with 1.8l Turbo engine (20 valve) was sold
> in the US with 130hp while the European version had 150hp. This was done
> because of the lower fuel quality.
>
> There are other differences as well. German-made cars sold in Western
> Europe usually conform to the German standard which means the car must run
> reliable even when driving at maximum speed for a long time. Overseas
> versions which rarely get driven faster than 55-80 mp/h often come with
> downsized cooling systems, brake systems and other things which save the
> manufacturer money and have no influence on safety or reliability in
> countries with general speed limits.
>
> Benjamin
 >> Stay informed about: 2.7T Gas Mileage 

* Pete:
> "Benjamin Gawert" wrote
>> I.e. the last Volkswagen Passat with 1.8l Turbo engine (20 valve) was sold
>> in the US with 130hp while the European version had 150hp. This was done
>> because of the lower fuel quality.
>
> The 1.8T never had 130hp in the US. It had 150hp initially, and then 170hp
> in later years.

There definitely was a ~130hp version of the 1.8T engine in the old
Passat (3BG). One of my flight instructors had such a car in 2003, made
in Mexico. IIRC the life cycle of this version was rather short.

Benjamin
 >> Stay informed about: 2.7T Gas Mileage 

"Benjamin Gawert" wrote
> There definitely was a ~130hp version of the 1.8T engine in the old Passat
> (3BG). One of my flight instructors had such a car in 2003, made in
> Mexico. IIRC the life cycle of this version was rather short.

I'm sorry, but you've got it all wrong. The first time a 1.8T was offered
in a Passat in the US was in 1998, and it had 150 hp. And it wasn't made in
Mexico either.

The only engine that I can think of that had around 130 hp (134 to be exact)
was a 2-liter non-turbo one offered back in 1990 on the Passat.

Pete
 >> Stay informed about: 2.7T Gas Mileage 

"Pete" <nouser RemoveThis @nodomain.com> wrote in message
news:fo1090$s4v$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
>
> "Benjamin Gawert" wrote
>> There definitely was a ~130hp version of the 1.8T engine in the old
>> Passat (3BG). One of my flight instructors had such a car in 2003, made
>> in Mexico. IIRC the life cycle of this version was rather short.

Apparently so short that there was only one made <g>.
 >> Stay informed about: 2.7T Gas Mileage 

"Pete" <nouser.RemoveThis@nodomain.com> wrote in message
news:fo1090$s4v$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
>
> "Benjamin Gawert" wrote
>> There definitely was a ~130hp version of the 1.8T engine in the old
>> Passat (3BG). One of my flight instructors had such a car in 2003, made
>> in Mexico. IIRC the life cycle of this version was rather short.

Apparently so short that there was only one made <g>.
 >> Stay informed about: 2.7T Gas Mileage 

* Pete:

> I'm sorry, but you've got it all wrong. The first time a 1.8T was offered
> in a Passat in the US was in 1998, and it had 150 hp. And it wasn't made in
> Mexico either.

I'm quite sure about that. I have seen the spec sheet, and we have been
at a Volkswagen dealer in San Jose where he bought that car, and while
he was giving it away for service I talked with the dealer who explaned
me that he sells regular Passats made in Emden, Germany, and Passats
made in or made for (I'm not sure of that) Mexico.

I know the Passat 3BG very well, and the interior quality of this Passat
was noticeably worse than any 3BG I've seen before.

> The only engine that I can think of that had around 130 hp (134 to be exact)
> was a 2-liter non-turbo one offered back in 1990 on the Passat.

In 1990 there was no Passat 3BG.

Benjamin
 >> Stay informed about: 2.7T Gas Mileage 

"Benjamin Gawert" wrote
> I know the Passat 3BG very well, and the interior quality of this Passat
> was noticeably worse than any 3BG I've seen before.

What exactly is a Passat 3BG? I've never heard of this nomenclature out
here in the US. Is it a B5? B5.5? B6? During which years was it available?

Pete
 >> Stay informed about: 2.7T Gas Mileage 

On Feb 7, 1:36 pm, Benjamin Gawert <bgaw....TakeThisOut@gmx.de> wrote:
> * Pete:
>
> > I'm sorry, but you've got it all wrong. The first time a 1.8T was offered
> > in a Passat in the US was in 1998, and it had 150 hp. And it wasn't made in
> > Mexico either.
>
> I'm quite sure about that. I have seen the spec sheet, and we have been
> at a Volkswagen dealer in San Jose where he bought that car, and while
> he was giving it away for service I talked with the dealer who explaned
> me that he sells regular Passats made in Emden, Germany, and Passats
> made in or made for (I'm not sure of that) Mexico.
>
> I know the Passat 3BG very well, and the interior quality of this Passat
> was noticeably worse than any 3BG I've seen before.
>
> > The only engine that I can think of that had around 130 hp (134 to be exact)
> > was a 2-liter non-turbo one offered back in 1990 on the Passat.
>
> In 1990 there was no Passat 3BG.

Well, the 1990 Passat was the same as the 1991 - 1996 cars, so if the
'3BG' nomenclature applies to the 1991 and newer, it should apply to
the 1990 as well. And a quick scan of edmunds.com shows that the 2.0L
I4 engine was available off and on through the '90's, until the 1.8T
with 150hp debuted with the 1998 newly-rebodied Passat.

Dan D
'04 A4 1.8Tq MT-6
Central NJ USA
 >> Stay informed about: 2.7T Gas Mileage 

* Pete:

> What exactly is a Passat 3BG? I've never heard of this nomenclature out
> here in the US.

3BG stands for the internal VW model nomenclature (like "D2" and "4E"
for the Audi A. The 3BG is the facelift version of the 3B (the
successor of the Passat 35I).

This is a Passat 3B:
<http://www.autogaleria.pl/tapety/img/volkswagen/volkswagen_passat_1997_01_b.jpg>

And these are Passat 3BG:
<http://fotogalerien.tuningzine.de/rieger_vw_passat_30102006/vw_passat_text_1.jpg>
<http://www.autopflege24.net/showshine/2007/passat/passat_index.jpg>

And this is the old 35I:
<http://www.selfbase.com/car_interior_database/photos/cars/400/4400501401.jpg>

The 3BG was basically made to make the Passat look more luxurious and to
be able to compete with Mercedes C-class, BMW 3-series and Audi A4.

> During which years was it available?

I don't know the timeframe it was sold in the US (but I doubt it differs
much) but here in Germany the 35I was made from 1988 to 1996 where the
35B was introduced. It was replaced by the 3BG in 2000. The 3BG was
terminated in 2005.

BTW: does the US also have the hazzle with bio ethanol mixture in
regular fuel? Here in Germany the government forced that all grades of
gas contain 5% of bio enthanol (E5 gas). A new law from 2006 now forces
the percentage of bio ethanol to raise to 10% (E10 gas), probably
starting already in 2009. Bio ethanol is very corrosive and can cause
higher wear (especially in the area of valve seating), it's expensive to
produce which makes the gas more expensive and also contains less energy
than gas which leads to a lower gas mileage. Since it's still not really
clear which older cars do tolerate E10 gas and which don't (for example,
Audi says all models since 1992 can tolerate E10 - except FSI engines
before 2004!) the government decided to leave around 1000 gas stations
nationwide with E5 "Super Plus" (premium grade, most older cars only
require lower grades) gas until 2016 where no E5 will be available any
more in this country. Not only "Super Plus" is the most expensive gas
grade, the E5 "Super Plus" will be even more expensive due to higher
logistics and production costs. So you buy a new Ford Ka (compact car)
today, you won't find any fuel for it after 2016. You have an Audi, Seat
or Volkswagen with FSI engine older than 2004? Same problem. You have an
Mitsubishi Carisma GDI? Same problem. And this goes on for lots of other
cars, too. Besides that, even for the manufacturer it's not clear what
long-term effects bio ethanol has in older cars. Isn't that great?

Benjamin

Benjamin
 >> Stay informed about: 2.7T Gas Mileage 

* Dano58:

> Well, the 1990 Passat was the same as the 1991 - 1996 cars

Right, it's the Passat 35I.

> , so if the '3BG' nomenclature applies to the 1991 and newer

No, it doesn't. 3BG was made from 2000-2005.

Benjamin
 >> Stay informed about: 2.7T Gas Mileage 

My 2004 A6 2.7T S-Line with 57,000 miles gets around 19 in mixed suburban
driving with a gentle accelerator pedal and about 24 on the highway. Of
course, when I'm having fun, it goes down to 14 to 16 mpg ...

"Bruce W. Ellis" <ellis.RemoveThis@means.net> wrote in message
news:2q5tp3dkojo8kj6nfac2k7pbcobi5ojsor@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:12:38 -0500, "Ken K" <kkowalk13.RemoveThis@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>I am a recent owner of a 03 2.7T and am getting about 18 mpg. I am running
>>premium gas and most of the driving is highway. The computer claims I am
>>getting an average of 21.6. Does this sound right? If not, what can I do
>>to
>>improve the mileage?
>>Thanks, K
>>
> My 2000 A6 2.7T generally gives in the low 20's when at highway speed
> (~ 70). City driving in the upper teens. The nice thing about a
> relatively small V6 is that it will do well with gas mileage at
> cruising. The MPG depends on how much you engage the loud pedal
> (turbos). The power is there when you need it (to pass, etc.) but a
> large displacement engine is not being pumped when not needed. Your
> mileage may vary..
 >> Stay informed about: 2.7T Gas Mileage