2001 Intrips SE Windows Fogging

Bill,

As always, thanks for your thoughts. The air that is exiting the defroster
and the heater are definitely warm to hot. They can fully warm the vehicle
if I drive ~25-30 minutes with an outside air temp of -6F. I will have to
take a look a the blend door when the weather gets warmer. Is there
supposed to always be "some" leakage to the windshield defroster vents even
when on the heater setting? All I can figure is that nothing at all gets
directed there and the extreme cold, coupled with the vehicle speed is
chilling the windshield. If I heat the passenger compartment using the
heater setting, then the moisture from my breath is being absorbed into the
warmed air and then condensing on the cold windshield and side windows.
Only when the setting is moved to defrost and after the windshield and side
windows warm sufficiently does the condensation stop and I get regular
visibility.

If anyone has any other thoughts, let me know!

Bob
"Bill Putney" <bptn.RemoveThis@kinez.net> wrote in message
news:61cc6bF1t0q30U1@mid.individual.net...
> Bob - You seem to have just about covered most of the bases. One thing
> you danced around a couple of times but without really stating explicitly
> is if the air that is coming out of the correct vents is actually warm or
> not. Since you appear to have eliminated that moisture is leaking into
> the ducting from the heater core and confirmed that the a.c. is working in
> defrost mode, I am going to assume that the problem is that the air is not
> getting warm.
>
> Three possible causes that I can think of, and I have read on the LH car
> forums of all three of these occurring:
> (1) The heater core is clogged, so, even though your engine is cooling
> fine, the coolant is not circulating thru the heater core.
> (2) Your coolant may be low or have an air pocket (actually they are one
> and the same) - leaving you enough coolant to cool the engine fine, but,
> again, leaving the heater core without circulating warm coolant.
> (3) The blend door is not operating correctly. That door is a vane that
> determine what proportion of the air forced by the fan is going thru the
> heater core fins vs. going around (bypassing) the heater core.
>
> That's my best shot. Obviously the best scenario would be no. (2) or
> (3) - and they are both definitely possible. Like I said, I have read
> many posts by people on the LH car forums where any one of the three has
> happened.
>
> If the air coming out of the ducting is in fact warm, then, with your
> having covered the other bases, I'm at a loss as the things I came up with
> only address the air coming out of the ducts not being warm.
>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address
> with the letter 'x')
 >> Stay informed about: 2001 Intrips SE Windows Fogging 

Bob Shuman wrote:
> Bill,
>
> As always, thanks for your thoughts...

Thanks, Bob.

> Only when the setting is moved to defrost and after the windshield and side
> windows warm sufficiently does the condensation stop and I get regular
> visibility.

I'm thinking that that sentence is the key to your problem. You need to
put it in defrost from the start. No - there won't be any heat at that
point, but the a.c. will run to pull moisture out of the air - that's
how it is designed to work. You're not allowing the system to do its job.

Glenn - others - aren't I right on that?

Anyway, Bob - try that and see.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')
 >> Stay informed about: 2001 Intrips SE Windows Fogging 

In article <61dachF1t3vvcU1 DeleteThis @mid.individual.net>,
Bill Putney <bptn DeleteThis @kinez.net> wrote:

> Bob Shuman wrote:
> > Bill,
> >
> > As always, thanks for your thoughts...
>
> Thanks, Bob.
>
> > Only when the setting is moved to defrost and after the windshield and side
> > windows warm sufficiently does the condensation stop and I get regular
> > visibility.
>
> I'm thinking that that sentence is the key to your problem. You need to
> put it in defrost from the start. No - there won't be any heat at that
> point, but the a.c. will run to pull moisture out of the air - that's
> how it is designed to work. You're not allowing the system to do its job.
>
> Glenn - others - aren't I right on that?

Yup.
No different than how my 98 was behaving on Sunday when
temperatures were similar. (-9)
Got to warm the windshield enough that inside moisture doesn't
condense, you can switch to dash vents and aim the two outboard
ones at the side windows but then the windshield starts to fog up.
Lot of square inches to the LH windshield...
 >> Stay informed about: 2001 Intrips SE Windows Fogging 

"Bob Shuman" <no_spam_thx.TakeThisOut@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:Dd5sj.53$pl4.32@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> I have a 2001 2.7L Dodge Intrepid SE (base model w/69K miles) that has
been
> very reliable and served me well, but I am experiencing a "problem" and
> would appreciate others thoughts.
>
> When the outside temperature is cold (and I will define cold here to mean
> somewhere below 10-15 degrees F), if I try to set the air outlet control
to
> the heater position (even when the car is 100% warmed up), then all of the
> windows in the car (this includes the rear window, side windows, and the
> front widshield) fog up (and will actually freeze) making visibility
> impossible. The only solution is to run the defroster 100% of the time
and
> even then, if it is extremely cold (like it is today with the temperature
> f -6 degrees F on my way into work), then the side windows will still
> freeze up even with the defroster blowing hot air at full force.
>
> I've attempted to clean the windows thoroughly without any change in this
> condition and also tried to look for any possible source for the water
> vapor, but also without success. The engine coolant level is normal and
is
> not leaking. The coolant temperature gauge goes to the normal/mid-scale
> position when the car warms up (5-10 minutes) and the outlet control and
> blower speed both seem to work properly since air comes out of the
> appropriate outlet dependent on the knob position. The Air Conditioner
also
> works perfectly and the compressor clutch engages on warmer days when the
> defroster position is selected.
>
> At this point I am at a loss to explain this behavior and would appreciate
> knowing if other Intrepid owners experience the same issue or if someone
has
> any idea on what I can look for to see where this moisture comes from. (I
> know some of it comes from breathing, but this has NEVER been a problem
with
> any other vehicles and they generally carry more passengers than I do in
> this car. Thanks in advance for all thoughts.
>
> Bob
>
>
Check the condensate drain. If the water cant get out after its been
collected, it will create the condition you describe.
 >> Stay informed about: 2001 Intrips SE Windows Fogging 

I will check the condensate drain as Deke suggested, but had not been
experiencing any issues over the summer when the AC ran regularly and there
was always a puddle of water under the front passenger side of the vehicle.

With every other vehicle I have ever owned, I have been able to use the
"heat" (floor outlet) or vent (dash outlet) settings, even in super-cold
weather. Occasionally I might need to run the defroster or select a setting
that provided a mix of both floor and defrost to clear the windshield, but
this car is completely different! If I even attempt to turn the control
knob to any other setting other than full defrost mode, my windshield and
side windows frost over and I lose visibility. In addition, no matter how
long I run the defroster when it is really cold outside (below zero F), even
to the point where the front windshield and both side front windows are
completely clear, and it is actually uncomfortable because it is so warm in
the car, the rear windows will still stay completely frosted over. I can
run the electric rear window defogger and this clears the rear window so
there is visibility, but the rear side windows just never seem to clear up
at all.

I really think that there must be some other source for this moisture, but I
simply can't find it! If it is not the coolant, and not from the
passengers, and not already in the trapped air in the vehicle (which is also
sub-zero so should be very dry), then where does it come from? By the way,
it has done this since I've owned it (4 years), but only gets really
annoying when the temperatures dip to around zero F. Unfortunately, this
winter is just plain cold so it is worse than it has been the last few
years. As additional info. I'm getting ready to hand down this vehicle to
my son this Spring and would like to solve this permanently so that he does
not have this trouble next winter.

Bob

"aarcuda69062" <nonelson DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:nonelson-206B3D.07074512022008@news.chi.sbcglobal.net...
> In article <61dachF1t3vvcU1 DeleteThis @mid.individual.net>,
> Bill Putney <bptn DeleteThis @kinez.net> wrote:
>
>> Bob Shuman wrote:
>> > Bill,
>> >
>> > As always, thanks for your thoughts...
>>
>> Thanks, Bob.
>>
>> > Only when the setting is moved to defrost and after the windshield and
>> > side
>> > windows warm sufficiently does the condensation stop and I get regular
>> > visibility.
>>
>> I'm thinking that that sentence is the key to your problem. You need to
>> put it in defrost from the start. No - there won't be any heat at that
>> point, but the a.c. will run to pull moisture out of the air - that's
>> how it is designed to work. You're not allowing the system to do its
>> job.
>>
>> Glenn - others - aren't I right on that?
>
> Yup.
> No different than how my 98 was behaving on Sunday when
> temperatures were similar. (-9)
> Got to warm the windshield enough that inside moisture doesn't
> condense, you can switch to dash vents and aim the two outboard
> ones at the side windows but then the windshield starts to fog up.
> Lot of square inches to the LH windshield...
 >> Stay informed about: 2001 Intrips SE Windows Fogging 

"Bob Shuman" <reshuman DeleteThis @removethis.alcatel-lucent.com> wrote in message
news:47b1d730@news.alcatel.com...
> I will check the condensate drain as Deke suggested, but had not been
> experiencing any issues over the summer when the AC ran regularly and
there
> was always a puddle of water under the front passenger side of the
vehicle.
>
(snip)

That puddle of water is the first indication that the drain is clogged. You
had issues this summer.
Your drain is clogged. Unclog it, and no puddle, no window
condensation.

Deke
 >> Stay informed about: 2001 Intrips SE Windows Fogging 

Bob Shuman wrote:
> I will check the condensate drain as Deke suggested, but had not been
> experiencing any issues over the summer when the AC ran regularly and there
> was always a puddle of water under the front passenger side of the vehicle.
>
> With every other vehicle I have ever owned, I have been able to use the
> "heat" (floor outlet) or vent (dash outlet) settings, even in super-cold
> weather. Occasionally I might need to run the defroster or select a setting
> that provided a mix of both floor and defrost to clear the windshield, but
> this car is completely different! If I even attempt to turn the control
> knob to any other setting other than full defrost mode, my windshield and
> side windows frost over and I lose visibility. In addition, no matter how
> long I run the defroster when it is really cold outside (below zero F), even
> to the point where the front windshield and both side front windows are
> completely clear, and it is actually uncomfortable because it is so warm in
> the car, the rear windows will still stay completely frosted over. I can
> run the electric rear window defogger and this clears the rear window so
> there is visibility, but the rear side windows just never seem to clear up
> at all.
>
> I really think that there must be some other source for this moisture, but I
> simply can't find it! If it is not the coolant, and not from the
> passengers, and not already in the trapped air in the vehicle (which is also
> sub-zero so should be very dry), then where does it come from? By the way,
> it has done this since I've owned it (4 years), but only gets really
> annoying when the temperatures dip to around zero F. Unfortunately, this
> winter is just plain cold so it is worse than it has been the last few
> years. As additional info. I'm getting ready to hand down this vehicle to
> my son this Spring and would like to solve this permanently so that he does
> not have this trouble next winter.
>
> Bob
>
> "aarcuda69062" <nonelson DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:nonelson-206B3D.07074512022008@news.chi.sbcglobal.net...
>> In article <61dachF1t3vvcU1 DeleteThis @mid.individual.net>,
>> Bill Putney <bptn DeleteThis @kinez.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Bob Shuman wrote:
>>>> Bill,
>>>>
>>>> As always, thanks for your thoughts...
>>> Thanks, Bob.
>>>
>>>> Only when the setting is moved to defrost and after the windshield and
>>>> side
>>>> windows warm sufficiently does the condensation stop and I get regular
>>>> visibility.
>>> I'm thinking that that sentence is the key to your problem. You need to
>>> put it in defrost from the start. No - there won't be any heat at that
>>> point, but the a.c. will run to pull moisture out of the air - that's
>>> how it is designed to work. You're not allowing the system to do its
>>> job.
>>>
>>> Glenn - others - aren't I right on that?
>> Yup.
>> No different than how my 98 was behaving on Sunday when
>> temperatures were similar. (-9)
>> Got to warm the windshield enough that inside moisture doesn't
>> condense, you can switch to dash vents and aim the two outboard
>> ones at the side windows but then the windshield starts to fog up.
>> Lot of square inches to the LH windshield...
>
>
At those temperatures the condensate may be freezing in the drain
and causing a backup.
It sounds to me like condensate is the most likely culprit.
Have you checked under the floor mats to ensure you don't have
excess moisture there?
 >> Stay informed about: 2001 Intrips SE Windows Fogging 

"Bill Putney" <bptn RemoveThis @kinez.net> wrote in message
news:61dachF1t3vvcU1@mid.individual.net...
> Bob Shuman wrote:
> > Bill,
> >
> > As always, thanks for your thoughts...
>
> Thanks, Bob.
>
> > Only when the setting is moved to defrost and after the windshield and
side
> > windows warm sufficiently does the condensation stop and I get regular
> > visibility.
>
> I'm thinking that that sentence is the key to your problem. You need to
> put it in defrost from the start. No - there won't be any heat at that
> point, but the a.c. will run to pull moisture out of the air - that's
> how it is designed to work. You're not allowing the system to do its job.
>
> Glenn - others - aren't I right on that?
>
> Anyway, Bob - try that and see.
>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> address with the letter 'x')

As suggested make sure the drain is not stopped up. If there is a lot of
moisture in the vehicle be it from wet carpet (rain or snow) it will take
awhile to get the moisture out. But if the windows are still damp inside
after the engine coolant is at operating temps and the moisture is still in
the vehicle there is something wrong. Make sure the RECIRC door is working.
If the recirc door is closed, it will take a long time to get the moisture
out. It wouldn't hurt to do a recalibration on the system.
With the vehicle at room temperature (Garage) 10°-27° C. (50° to 80° F.),
Disconnect the battery

for ten minutes to erase DTCs.

2. Reconnect the battery and start the vehicle, this will initiate the HVAC
system calibration.

Allow approximately five minutes for the calibration to complete.

3. Operate the vehicle and HVAC system to verify that Symptoms and/or DTCs
are gone.
 >> Stay informed about: 2001 Intrips SE Windows Fogging 

Deke wrote:
> "Bob Shuman" <reshuman.RemoveThis@removethis.alcatel-lucent.com> wrote in message
> news:47b1d730@news.alcatel.com...
>> I will check the condensate drain as Deke suggested, but had not been
>> experiencing any issues over the summer when the AC ran regularly and
> there
>> was always a puddle of water under the front passenger side of the
> vehicle.
> (snip)
>
> That puddle of water is the first indication that the drain is clogged. You
> had issues this summer.
> Your drain is clogged. Unclog it, and no puddle, no window
> condensation.
>
> Deke

Deke - I think you mis-read where he said "had not been experiencing any
issues over the summer when the AC ran regularly and there was always a
puddle of water under the front passenger side of the vehicle." I read
it wrong the first time too. He's saying that the drain drains onto the
ground ("...under the front passenger side of the vehicle") just like
it's supposed to.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')
 >> Stay informed about: 2001 Intrips SE Windows Fogging 

maxpower wrote:

> ...It wouldn't hurt to do a recalibration on the system.
> With the vehicle at room temperature (Garage) 10°-27° C. (50° to 80° F.),
> Disconnect the battery
>
> for ten minutes to erase DTCs.
>
> 2. Reconnect the battery and start the vehicle, this will initiate the HVAC
> system calibration.
>
> Allow approximately five minutes for the calibration to complete.
>
> 3. Operate the vehicle and HVAC system to verify that Symptoms and/or DTCs
> are gone.

He's got the base model, Glenn - i.e., manual temp controls, no ATC.
Reset won't affect a manual system, or will it?

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')
 >> Stay informed about: 2001 Intrips SE Windows Fogging 

Why does a pool of water under the passenger side where the drain is located
indicate a problem? Every car I have owned that was equipped with AC did
this ...

I agree it is worth checking, but not till it warms up some since my garage
is not heated and temperatures here have been brutal.

Thanks to all for their thoughts.

Bob

"Deke" <no spam DeleteThis @starband.net> wrote in message
news:cefba$47b1feaa$943f4036$21747@STARBAND.NET...
>
> "Bob Shuman" <reshuman DeleteThis @removethis.alcatel-lucent.com> wrote in message
> news:47b1d730@news.alcatel.com...
>> I will check the condensate drain as Deke suggested, but had not been
>> experiencing any issues over the summer when the AC ran regularly and
> there
>> was always a puddle of water under the front passenger side of the
> vehicle.
>>
> (snip)
>
> That puddle of water is the first indication that the drain is clogged.
> You
> had issues this summer.
> Your drain is clogged. Unclog it, and no puddle, no window
> condensation.
>
> Deke
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: 2001 Intrips SE Windows Fogging 

"Bill Putney" <bptn.TakeThisOut@kinez.net> wrote in message
news:61ep8uF1uksmlU1@mid.individual.net...
> maxpower wrote:
>
> > ...It wouldn't hurt to do a recalibration on the system.
> > With the vehicle at room temperature (Garage) 10°-27° C. (50° to 80°
F.),
> > Disconnect the battery
> >
> > for ten minutes to erase DTCs.
> >
> > 2. Reconnect the battery and start the vehicle, this will initiate the
HVAC
> > system calibration.
> >
> > Allow approximately five minutes for the calibration to complete.
> >
> > 3. Operate the vehicle and HVAC system to verify that Symptoms and/or
DTCs
> > are gone.
>
> He's got the base model, Glenn - i.e., manual temp controls, no ATC.
> Reset won't affect a manual system, or will it?
>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> address with the letter 'x')

ATC or manual. If the OP has access to a scan tool, the BCM may want to be
scanned for any door problems
 >> Stay informed about: 2001 Intrips SE Windows Fogging 

As mentioned previously, I have the base (no frills) SE model. The
recirculate setting on the control knob is only available at the two top
most positions (when using the dashboard vents), which I never use in the
winter (only use the bottom tow settings - windshield defrost and floor heat
in winter). But, as Glenn pointed out, it may not be working properly and
in fact be stuck in the recirculate position ... so must be examined to
eliminate that possibility. Thanks.

PS I used to have the auto climate control system on my previous vehicle, a
1996 Eagle Vision TSI. That system always worked flawlessly... It
certainly outperformed this system on the 2001 Intrepid SE and also the one
in my 1999 Town & Country Limited van too!

Bob

<holycow.TakeThisOut@hotshit.com> wrote in message
news:1202865612_13061@sp12lax.superfeed.net...
> Also check that you have the Fresh air setting on. If you have it on
> recirculate this will cause your windows to fog up.
>
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 >> Stay informed about: 2001 Intrips SE Windows Fogging