1993 Volvo 240 - blower fan problem - need help!

In article ,
rwlangbauer.TakeThisOut@sonic.net wrote:

> ps(i would also look @ the alt. a bad blower can be a big drain, but
> sounds like you are underpowered)

I would start there and with a general check of the charging system and
electrical system. The symptoms you are describing suggest that the
electrical system voltage is varying with engine speed- when it idles,
the voltage drops and when the revs are up the voltage comes up. A
slipping alternator belt, failing alternator, some other component that
is failing, etc. would be worth checking for. Those things are a lot
easier and a lot cheaper to fix that replacing the doggone blower motor
in one of these cars.

Do the headlights get brighter and dim as the engine speed goes up and
down?

--
This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live in
unless we make it a reasonably good place for all of us to live in.

Theodore Roosevelt
 >> Stay informed about: 1993 Volvo 240 - blower fan problem - need help! 

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 11:45:54 -0600, Tim McNamara
wrote:

>In article ,
> rwlangbauer DeleteThis @sonic.net wrote:
>
>> ps(i would also look @ the alt. a bad blower can be a big drain, but
>> sounds like you are underpowered)
>
>I would start there and with a general check of the charging system and
>electrical system. The symptoms you are describing suggest that the
>electrical system voltage is varying with engine speed- when it idles,
>the voltage drops and when the revs are up the voltage comes up. A
>slipping alternator belt, failing alternator, some other component that
>is failing, etc. would be worth checking for. Those things are a lot
>easier and a lot cheaper to fix that replacing the doggone blower motor
>in one of these cars.
>
>Do the headlights get brighter and dim as the engine speed goes up and
>down?
It sounds to ME, as a mechanic, like the brushes in the motor are
worn/sticking.
Not familliar with your little Swede, but in MANY cases, where the
blower motor is very difficult to REMOVE it is not hard to access -
and in many cases it is POSSIBLE to remove the end-bell of the motor
and access the brushes. Replacement brushes are generally available
from small motor/appliance shops or auto electric rebuilders if they
are not available from the manufacturer. Can be a trick to hold the
brushes in position while re-installing the end bell but I've never
found one that was impossible.

Clean things up real well while you are in there and the blower motor
is usually good for another 10 years or so,
 >> Stay informed about: 1993 Volvo 240 - blower fan problem - need help! 

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 11:45:54 -0600, Tim McNamara
wrote:

>In article ,
> rwlangbauer.RemoveThis@sonic.net wrote:
>
>> ps(i would also look @ the alt. a bad blower can be a big drain, but
>> sounds like you are underpowered)
>
>I would start there and with a general check of the charging system and
>electrical system. The symptoms you are describing suggest that the
>electrical system voltage is varying with engine speed- when it idles,
>the voltage drops and when the revs are up the voltage comes up. A
>slipping alternator belt, failing alternator, some other component that
>is failing, etc. would be worth checking for. Those things are a lot
>easier and a lot cheaper to fix that replacing the doggone blower motor
>in one of these cars.
>
>Do the headlights get brighter and dim as the engine speed goes up and
>down?

No change in the intensity of the headlights at higher rpm.
 >> Stay informed about: 1993 Volvo 240 - blower fan problem - need help! 

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 14:53:33 -0500, clare RemoveThis @snyder.on.ca wrote:

>On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 11:45:54 -0600, Tim McNamara
> wrote:
>
>>In article ,
>> rwlangbauer RemoveThis @sonic.net wrote:
>>
>>> ps(i would also look @ the alt. a bad blower can be a big drain, but
>>> sounds like you are underpowered)
>>
>>I would start there and with a general check of the charging system and
>>electrical system. The symptoms you are describing suggest that the
>>electrical system voltage is varying with engine speed- when it idles,
>>the voltage drops and when the revs are up the voltage comes up. A
>>slipping alternator belt, failing alternator, some other component that
>>is failing, etc. would be worth checking for. Those things are a lot
>>easier and a lot cheaper to fix that replacing the doggone blower motor
>>in one of these cars.
>>
>>Do the headlights get brighter and dim as the engine speed goes up and
>>down?
> It sounds to ME, as a mechanic, like the brushes in the motor are
>worn/sticking.
>Not familliar with your little Swede, but in MANY cases, where the
>blower motor is very difficult to REMOVE it is not hard to access -
>and in many cases it is POSSIBLE to remove the end-bell of the motor
>and access the brushes. Replacement brushes are generally available
>from small motor/appliance shops or auto electric rebuilders if they
>are not available from the manufacturer. Can be a trick to hold the
>brushes in position while re-installing the end bell but I've never
>found one that was impossible.
>
>Clean things up real well while you are in there and the blower motor
>is usually good for another 10 years or so,

Thanks for the tip, but such work is above my ability. Some 8-9 years
ago, I had the heater core replaced because it was leaking. So I know
the necessary work to access the blower fan, and I simply do not have
the space to do it. In the spring/summer, I could attempt to do it
while the car is park in the driveway. It is winter where I live and
outside temp is too cold to do so right now.

I honestly don't know what I'll do. When I had the heather core
changed, I think it took the mechanic some 5-7(?) hours to take
everything out and then put it back all together. Cost me ~ $1,500 at
the dealer.

The car is 18 yeras old, I just spent $700 during the last 6 months
and although everything is working except for the fuel gauge and the
intermitent part of the wipers and in spite of the fact that I love
the car, I am becoming reluctant at spending money on it. When I have
time this coming week, I'll probably take few things out just to see
how far I can go without removing the dashboard.

One more thing: I was wondering if the air coming out from the vent
could be due to the speed of the car. As you know, right under the
rear window of the 240, there are holes connected directy to the
outside. Therefore at higher speed, air is being sucked out of the
car. Just a thought.

Thanks to all for your advice. I really need it.
 >> Stay informed about: 1993 Volvo 240 - blower fan problem - need help! 

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 22:07:41 -0800, rwlangbauer.DeleteThis@sonic.net wrote:

>read some of old postings. the 240 starts w/ a blower on a pedestal.
>the car is then built around it. no e-motor lasts forever. replace it!
>if you are good w/ your hands, it will only take a day &
>8,000,000,000,000 cuss words to do it.
>
>ps(i would also look @ the alt. a bad blower can be a big drain, but
>sounds like you are underpowered)
>

Nevertheless I find it strange that the blower and blower resistor
(???) {I ask the independent garage I usually go to and they said
they would have to change the blower as well as another part- not sure
about the name - but it was associated to the blower} both died at the
same time due to cold temp.

I'll remove a few pieces like the panel with all the controls in the
middle (above the shifter) and see if there is anything that does not
seem right.


>On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 22:36:43 -0500, BeanhereB4
>wrote:
>
>>
>>3 days ago as I was driving to work, the blower fan slowed down
>>considerably. It went from running at high speed (setting of 4) to
>>almost nothing while the switch was still set at the highest. It
>>stopped and then came back by itself a few minutes later.
>>
>>The day after it was not working at all in the morning. But in the
>>evening the fan started to work when my speed was greater than 35 mph.
>>I would accelearte faster, up to 55 mph and the fan would turn faster,
>>like a setting of 2 on the switch. Turning the switch in any position
>>had no impact on the blower. And as soon as I braked the blower fan
>>would slow down dramatically and eventually come to a complete stop
>>when the car was travelling at less than 15 mph. But as soon as I was
>>driving at speed above 35 mph, it made the blower work.
>>
>>This morning the fan was dead.
>>
>>One thing you need to know: the car is always kept in a garage.
>>Outside temp can dip to 7F (~-19C) at night. And prior to the blower
>>fan failing, I had parked the car outside for 3 nights. Normally the
>>car is never, ever exposed to extreme cold for more than an hour.
>>Also, some two years ago, I also left the car out for 2-3 days during
>>the cold of winter and then right after, something else was not
>>working. I don't remember what it was exactly, but I remember
>>realizing that it must have been due to the cold. And it was also
>>related to something electrical.
>>
>>Your help would be greatly appreciated as the garage I go to wants to
>>change the blower as well as another part associted with the blower
>>(resisor??????) and I'm not incline to have it done given the $$$$
>>involved.
 >> Stay informed about: 1993 Volvo 240 - blower fan problem - need help! 

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 22:05:29 -0500, BeanhereB4 wrote:

>On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 22:07:41 -0800, rwlangbauer.DeleteThis@sonic.net wrote:
>
>>read some of old postings. the 240 starts w/ a blower on a pedestal.
>>the car is then built around it. no e-motor lasts forever. replace it!
>>if you are good w/ your hands, it will only take a day &
>>8,000,000,000,000 cuss words to do it.
>>
>>ps(i would also look @ the alt. a bad blower can be a big drain, but
>>sounds like you are underpowered)
>>
>
>Nevertheless I find it strange that the blower and blower resistor
>(???) {I ask the independent garage I usually go to and they said
>they would have to change the blower as well as another part- not sure
>about the name - but it was associated to the blower} both died at the
>same time due to cold temp.
>
>I'll remove a few pieces like the panel with all the controls in the
>middle (above the shifter) and see if there is anything that does not
>seem right.
>
>
>>On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 22:36:43 -0500, BeanhereB4
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>3 days ago as I was driving to work, the blower fan slowed down
>>>considerably. It went from running at high speed (setting of 4) to
>>>almost nothing while the switch was still set at the highest. It
>>>stopped and then came back by itself a few minutes later.
>>>
>>>The day after it was not working at all in the morning. But in the
>>>evening the fan started to work when my speed was greater than 35 mph.
>>>I would accelearte faster, up to 55 mph and the fan would turn faster,
>>>like a setting of 2 on the switch. Turning the switch in any position
>>>had no impact on the blower. And as soon as I braked the blower fan
>>>would slow down dramatically and eventually come to a complete stop
>>>when the car was travelling at less than 15 mph. But as soon as I was
>>>driving at speed above 35 mph, it made the blower work.
>>>
>>>This morning the fan was dead.
>>>
>>>One thing you need to know: the car is always kept in a garage.
>>>Outside temp can dip to 7F (~-19C) at night. And prior to the blower
>>>fan failing, I had parked the car outside for 3 nights. Normally the
>>>car is never, ever exposed to extreme cold for more than an hour.
>>>Also, some two years ago, I also left the car out for 2-3 days during
>>>the cold of winter and then right after, something else was not
>>>working. I don't remember what it was exactly, but I remember
>>>realizing that it must have been due to the cold. And it was also
>>>related to something electrical.
>>>
>>>Your help would be greatly appreciated as the garage I go to wants to
>>>change the blower as well as another part associted with the blower
>>>(resisor??????) and I'm not incline to have it done given the $$$$
>>>involved.
Just a quick primer on how the heater motor/swith/resistor works on
MOST cars. There are some that get more complex, using relays aetc -
but this is pretty satandard.

On high the resistor is not in the circuit - so if it does not work on
high and someone tries to blame the resistor, he's blowing smoke.

On low, the current to the motor goes through the entire resistor. On
the medium speed(s) the power goes through PART of the resistor.
On some cars the switch feeds the power to the resistor through
different "taps" for each speed. On some it takes the power from the
resistor from different "taps" for each speed, and on others the
switch shorts out different sections of the resistor, one at a time,
untill the whole resistor is bypassed for high.

Many of the systems using relays have a relay to short out the
resistor for each speed.


So one thing you can be CERTAIN of - if it doesn't work on high - it
is NOT the residtor's fault.

That said - if the blower motor is jammed by ice in the blower wheel,
and the switch is left on low or medium - it WILL blow the resistor -
leaving you with the possibility of needing to change both.

Some cars even have 2 fuses for the blower motor - one for high only,
and one for the low speeds. I cannot remember right off hand WHAT car
uses that system, but I HAVE seen it.

Given the situation where the motor slowed down while on high, either
the resistance of the power feed went up (due to bad switc, burned
wire connector, or bad connection) or something went bad in the motor
- my guess from decades of experience and the age of the car is
warn/sticky motor brushes.

If it was a FORD - particularly an Aerostar or a Contour/Mystique my
bet would be on a burnred connection on the blower switch - and that
would likely be the first thing I would CHECK on the Volvo even though
the most likely problem is the motor. The switch is the simplest to
get to, the simplest to check, and the least expensive to fix
(generally speaking - I haven't had to buy a VOLVO heater switch).

If getting to the switch is difficult, simply back-probe the power
connector to the blower motor if it is easier to get to and check the
voltage with the switch on high. If you have 11.5 volts or higher and
the fan is not running at near full speed you have a motor problem. If
the voltage is markedly lower, it is a switch/connector problem.

If ALL speeds are low and the voltage on high is low it is most likely
a problem in the power feed to the switch. If high only, a problem
from the switch to the motor.
 >> Stay informed about: 1993 Volvo 240 - blower fan problem - need help! 

Hi,

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 21:58:34 -0500,
BeanhereB4 wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 14:53:33 -0500, clare.TakeThisOut@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 11:45:54 -0600, Tim McNamara
> > wrote:
> >
> >>In article ,
> >> rwlangbauer.TakeThisOut@sonic.net wrote:
> >>
> >>> ps(i would also look @ the alt. a bad blower can be a big drain, but
> >>> sounds like you are underpowered)
> >>
> >>I would start there and with a general check of the charging system and
> >>electrical system. The symptoms you are describing suggest that the
> >>electrical system voltage is varying with engine speed- when it idles,
> >>the voltage drops and when the revs are up the voltage comes up. A
> >>slipping alternator belt, failing alternator, some other component that
> >>is failing, etc. would be worth checking for. Those things are a lot
> >>easier and a lot cheaper to fix that replacing the doggone blower motor
> >>in one of these cars.
> >>
> >>Do the headlights get brighter and dim as the engine speed goes up and
> >>down?
> > It sounds to ME, as a mechanic, like the brushes in the motor are
> >worn/sticking.
> >Not familliar with your little Swede, but in MANY cases, where the
> >blower motor is very difficult to REMOVE it is not hard to access -
> >and in many cases it is POSSIBLE to remove the end-bell of the motor
> >and access the brushes. Replacement brushes are generally available
> >from small motor/appliance shops or auto electric rebuilders if they
> >are not available from the manufacturer. Can be a trick to hold the
> >brushes in position while re-installing the end bell but I've never
> >found one that was impossible.
> >
> >Clean things up real well while you are in there and the blower motor
> >is usually good for another 10 years or so,
>
> Thanks for the tip, but such work is above my ability. Some 8-9 years
> ago, I had the heater core replaced because it was leaking. So I know
> the necessary work to access the blower fan, and I simply do not have
> the space to do it. In the spring/summer, I could attempt to do it
> while the car is park in the driveway. It is winter where I live and
> outside temp is too cold to do so right now.
>
> I honestly don't know what I'll do. When I had the heather core
> changed, I think it took the mechanic some 5-7(?) hours to take
> everything out and then put it back all together. Cost me ~ $1,500 at
> the dealer.
>
> The car is 18 yeras old, I just spent $700 during the last 6 months
> and although everything is working except for the fuel gauge and the
> intermitent part of the wipers and in spite of the fact that I love
> the car, I am becoming reluctant at spending money on it. When I have
> time this coming week, I'll probably take few things out just to see
> how far I can go without removing the dashboard.
>
> One more thing: I was wondering if the air coming out from the vent
> could be due to the speed of the car. As you know, right under the
> rear window of the 240, there are holes connected directy to the
> outside. Therefore at higher speed, air is being sucked out of the
> car. Just a thought.

That's what happens when the car is moving, yes. You need to be
stationary to judge whether the blower motor really works.

If you had AC I think the process is just as described here (I think
someone might have referred to it already):

<URL:http://cleanflametrap.com/>

If not the job is a little bit different. You'll need to remove the
heater core, too, to replace the motor. The two are placed into the
heater / blower box which I think is easier just to remove. That said,
I haven't even tried it without removing the box.

Besides regular tools, a pair of special pliers to squeeze heater
hoses shut are handy so you can skip draining the coolant --- you'll
just get half a litre or so from the heater core inside the car. If
the heater core has been accessed recently the hoses aren't vulcanised
tightly to the heater core so they're easier to remove.

I've done that twice on cars without AC, and not being a mechanic, it
took one and half full days the first time and one on second time for
me. I didn't remove the dashboard but the driver's seat removal is
mandatory.

Not perhaps something to do out of pure fun but perhaps saving some >=
1000 $ might be another motivator. Here in Finland a heater fan
costs just some 70 euros and likely it's around the same in USD.

So better to reserve a week-end for that or so. And definitely,
spring / summer is much better time to do it if you can live with it
not working during the winter.

Cheers,

--
Sakari Ailus
http://www.iki.fi/~sailus/
 >> Stay informed about: 1993 Volvo 240 - blower fan problem - need help! 

On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 15:39:14 +0200, Sakari Ailus
wrote:

>
>That's what happens when the car is moving, yes. You need to be
>stationary to judge whether the blower motor really works.
>
Definitely, that's what happened. Fascinating that there is so much
air being pulled out of the cabin by the simple motion of the car.

>If you had AC I think the process is just as described here (I think
>someone might have referred to it already):
>
><URL:http://cleanflametrap.com/>
>
>If not the job is a little bit different. You'll need to remove the
>heater core, too, to replace the motor. The two are placed into the
>heater / blower box which I think is easier just to remove. That said,
>I haven't even tried it without removing the box.
>
>Besides regular tools, a pair of special pliers to squeeze heater
>hoses shut are handy so you can skip draining the coolant --- you'll
>just get half a litre or so from the heater core inside the car. If
>the heater core has been accessed recently the hoses aren't vulcanised
>tightly to the heater core so they're easier to remove.
>
>I've done that twice on cars without AC, and not being a mechanic, it
>took one and half full days the first time and one on second time for
>me. I didn't remove the dashboard but the driver's seat removal is
>mandatory.
>
>Not perhaps something to do out of pure fun but perhaps saving some >=
>1000 $ might be another motivator. Here in Finland a heater fan
>costs just some 70 euros and likely it's around the same in USD.
>
>So better to reserve a week-end for that or so. And definitely,
>spring / summer is much better time to do it if you can live with it
>not working during the winter.
>
>Cheers,

Thanks for the priceless advice you have given me. The suggestion to
remove the driver seat is priceless!!! Such a simple thing and I
would have probably never thought of it. Some 10 years ago I removed
all the interior seats in order to wash them with a pressure washer.
Really nto a big deal, but one needs to think about doing it.

I'll see if I can find the time to have a look in there this week.

Thanks again.
 >> Stay informed about: 1993 Volvo 240 - blower fan problem - need help! 

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 23:51:56 -0500, clare.DeleteThis@snyder.on.ca wrote:


> Just a quick primer on how the heater motor/swith/resistor works on
>MOST cars. There are some that get more complex, using relays aetc -
>but this is pretty satandard.
>
>On high the resistor is not in the circuit - so if it does not work on
>high and someone tries to blame the resistor, he's blowing smoke.
>
>On low, the current to the motor goes through the entire resistor. On
>the medium speed(s) the power goes through PART of the resistor.
>On some cars the switch feeds the power to the resistor through
>different "taps" for each speed. On some it takes the power from the
>resistor from different "taps" for each speed, and on others the
>switch shorts out different sections of the resistor, one at a time,
>untill the whole resistor is bypassed for high.
>
>Many of the systems using relays have a relay to short out the
>resistor for each speed.
>
>
>So one thing you can be CERTAIN of - if it doesn't work on high - it
>is NOT the residtor's fault.
>
>That said - if the blower motor is jammed by ice in the blower wheel,
>and the switch is left on low or medium - it WILL blow the resistor -
>leaving you with the possibility of needing to change both.
>
> Some cars even have 2 fuses for the blower motor - one for high only,
>and one for the low speeds. I cannot remember right off hand WHAT car
>uses that system, but I HAVE seen it.
>
> Given the situation where the motor slowed down while on high, either
>the resistance of the power feed went up (due to bad switc, burned
>wire connector, or bad connection) or something went bad in the motor
>- my guess from decades of experience and the age of the car is
>warn/sticky motor brushes.
>
>If it was a FORD - particularly an Aerostar or a Contour/Mystique my
>bet would be on a burnred connection on the blower switch - and that
>would likely be the first thing I would CHECK on the Volvo even though
>the most likely problem is the motor. The switch is the simplest to
>get to, the simplest to check, and the least expensive to fix
>(generally speaking - I haven't had to buy a VOLVO heater switch).
>
>If getting to the switch is difficult, simply back-probe the power
>connector to the blower motor if it is easier to get to and check the
>voltage with the switch on high. If you have 11.5 volts or higher and
>the fan is not running at near full speed you have a motor problem. If
>the voltage is markedly lower, it is a switch/connector problem.
>
>If ALL speeds are low and the voltage on high is low it is most likely
>a problem in the power feed to the switch. If high only, a problem
>from the switch to the motor.

Thanks for making my education I'll print everything you wrote and
add it to my Haynes manual.

I'll keep you posted as soon as I can find the time to go play in
there.

Again thanks a bunch
 >> Stay informed about: 1993 Volvo 240 - blower fan problem - need help! 

Don't forget to check the fuse panel early in your diagnosis, they can be
problematic on 240's.
Your problem could lie there.

Check that the fuse holding blades for the blower fuse apply good pressure
to the fuse ends and check that those blades are not too tarnished, polish
if they are.
Check that the relevant fuse is not damaged from heat and is not mishapen.
This can happen with non OEM plastic fuses and they can become high
resistance in their contact with the fuse holders.
Ceramic fuses are much better and I recently bought some from a US ebayer
and replaced all of mine.

You will be able to find and get a lot of help here on the 200 series forum
http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=11 we are a friendly and
helpful bunch and do have some US forum members.

Registration is free and you could then post your problem on the forum.
You are certain to get helpful replies.

Sandbox


"BeanhereB4" wrote in message

>
> 3 days ago as I was driving to work, the blower fan slowed down
> considerably. It went from running at high speed (setting of 4) to
> almost nothing while the switch was still set at the highest. It
> stopped and then came back by itself a few minutes later.
>
> The day after it was not working at all in the morning. But in the
> evening the fan started to work when my speed was greater than 35 mph.
> I would accelearte faster, up to 55 mph and the fan would turn faster,
> like a setting of 2 on the switch. Turning the switch in any position
> had no impact on the blower. And as soon as I braked the blower fan
> would slow down dramatically and eventually come to a complete stop
> when the car was travelling at less than 15 mph. But as soon as I was
> driving at speed above 35 mph, it made the blower work.
>
> This morning the fan was dead.
>
> One thing you need to know: the car is always kept in a garage.
> Outside temp can dip to 7F (~-19C) at night. And prior to the blower
> fan failing, I had parked the car outside for 3 nights. Normally the
> car is never, ever exposed to extreme cold for more than an hour.
> Also, some two years ago, I also left the car out for 2-3 days during
> the cold of winter and then right after, something else was not
> working. I don't remember what it was exactly, but I remember
> realizing that it must have been due to the cold. And it was also
> related to something electrical.
>
> Your help would be greatly appreciated as the garage I go to wants to
> change the blower as well as another part associted with the blower
> (resisor??????) and I'm not incline to have it done given the $$$$
> involved.





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 >> Stay informed about: 1993 Volvo 240 - blower fan problem - need help!